bass in EAI

[max]

I am wondering if anyone has recommendations for recordings showcasing different approaches to bass

Particularly a sort of Keith Rowe type of approach to turning the bass into an instrument that can find new sounds in the low end. I am curious if this has ever been tried within the more abstract electronic/live EAI style.

And in addition, just any recordings showcasing good bass performances on more standard jazz.

[jon abbey]

don't feel like doing recordings, but there are plenty of interesting bassists working in this area: Dominic Lash, Christian Weber, Andrew Lafkas, Mike Bullock, Mike Majkowski are the first to come to mind.

[mrosenstein]

I'd add Werner Dafeldecker and some of Simon Fell's work.

[Dan Warburton]

http://www.discogs.com/Domenico-Sciajno ... se/2246471

[max]

First off, thanks for the recommendations.

I should give a bit of preface. I don't want to downplay the quality of these recommendations.

The obvious answer to what I am about to say is "do it yourself." I am a musician, and I post here because I am interested in trying to find out if other people have done things that I hadn't heard before. EAI represents in many ways the forefront of what has been done with sound. It's something of an obsession of mine to try to figure out if anyone has the same idea I have in my own project, and in discovering EAI I found some recordings which reflected some of my own ideas. Rabbit Run for example is one of them (combines samples, synthesis and sound to create a completely abstract form befitting the technologies and progress we have seen - it was like discovering that I wasn't that special after all for the sounds I was imagining, and also that music was still thriving), though due to my lack of money, similarly interested friends, or time I haven't had much of a chance to explore much further. Poor excuse, I know.

I am currently playing bass in a band that is interested in experimental rock music. Playing notes on bass is good fun, however what I came to realize was the pure role BASS has in music - which is the manipulation of the low frequency spectrum - as well as the diverse and expansive possibilities that the low frequencies hold in and of themselves - particularly in a live setting and when amplified at a crowd. The thought crossed my mind that it would be very interesting to see what can be done with the pure low-end of the bass frequency spectrum in a completely non-traditional way. In the same way that Keith Rowe turns his guitar on its side in order to explore the further reaches of what can be done with the instrument, particularly in the treble and mid sections of the frequency spectrum, it suddenly dawned on me that nobody (within my probably ignorant awareness) had tried to do anything similar in the LOW frequencies.

We hear lots of onkyo which is, from what I have heard, focused on the high frequencies - as well as its close companion in electroacoustic improvisation in general. For whatever reason, these genres, as far as I know, neglect the low as a part of the spectrum of audio which can be pushed further in its own right. I also had this idea because of electronic "bass" music (jungle and dubstep) which rethinks bass as it relates to a soundsystem and the body, the full experience of bass in itself.



So, in this sense, the recommendations I have been given do not yet answer this curiosity. I think there is potential here. I think it would be interesting to see what such a musician could do if teamed up with other EAI musicians, though I'm not sure what technical stuff is involved and TBH it's not something I personally see myself investing time into as bass is by no means my first instrument. Maybe this idea will inspire someone though, or give a better idea of what I am looking for, which is electric bass as opposed to double bass, and or any experimental approach to the lower frequency spectrum as opposed to the high frequencies (onkyo / EAI in general).

I hope this post wasn't too pretentious or stupid.

Thanks,
Max

[jon abbey]

if I'm following, I think the area of sound you're talking about has of course been explored a ton, but possibly not so much by the bass instrument per se. there was a bass issue of The Wire a few years back that might give you some pointers:

http://www.thewire.co.uk/issues/341

one that Derek Walmsley wrote about in there was an Erst, imaoto with the bass component from Radu's trombone and Christoph Amann's expert recording/mastering. have you heard that yet?

[Dan Warburton]

Good call - you might also like Mohammad, Nikos Veliotis' low end trio with Ilios and Coti K. Very heavy bass.

Also Eliane Radigue's Elemental II, written for Kasper Toeplitz's bass..

Come to think of it, you should check out other Toeplitz things, esp his trio Kernel http://www.discogs.com/artist/95158-Kasper-T-Toeplitz.

[Hayao Yamaneko]

It's an interesting one. I think on the whole there are good reasons bass hasn't been explored in that way in eai (distinct from any good reasons it should not be explored that way!). A lot of EAI has been about making listening strange - breaking our habits and instincts, questioning the roles of instruments. Because we hear harmonic structures as grounded in the lowest partial (to the extent that when we hear a strongly ordered harmonic series that is missing its lowest harmonic the ear/brain will imply that harmonic), bass is difficult to use in that kind of context - it tends to ground harmonic structures very strongly.

That can make for a slightly hierarchical playing situation particularly if the music develops in a harmonic direction. Specifically removing the bass makes it easier to produce moment to moment interaction in which all the parts have equal role since you remove/reduce a global harmonic context the bass component provides. I can't remember where/who now but I read a nice piece a while back suggesting that the development of 20th C music could be seen as a move away from harmonic structures that build from the bottom towards harmonic structures that radiate out from the centre. It's an interesting idea, and again the result seems to be to undermine our listening instincts, reduce the resting places in the music and put more responsibility on the listener to interpret.

Double bass seems to my electronic-music conditioned ears not all that bassy an instrument - not compared to electric bass or synth/computer. When I (on computer/modular) play with Dominic Lash I often find that I end up working lower parts of the spectrum than him. But then Dom plays all over the spectrum and doesn't tend to stay long in areas that drive harmonic movement.

But obviously *none* of that is to say that there's not interesting territory to explore in/near EAI on an electric bass / low frequency electronics etc. It seems to me it'd be an interesting and challenging thing to try. You just got me thinking about why it maybe hasn't happened so much to date.

[SqDanceCallingSteve]

[quote="max"And in addition, just any recordings showcasing good bass performances on more standard jazz.[/quote]





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYgICMxTAWg

[Dan Warburton]

Fine albums, both, but that's what folks round these parts call EFI not EAI

[SqDanceCallingSteve]

And in addition, just any recordings showcasing good bass performances on more standard jazz.

I know

[MRS]

you might also like Mohammad, Nikos Veliotis' low end trio with Ilios and Coti K.

Any select recommendations from you/anyone?

[Dan Warburton]

you might also like Mohammad, Nikos Veliotis' low end trio with Ilios and Coti K.

Any select recommendations from you/anyone?

I prefer the first two albums http://www.discogs.com/artist/427849-Mohammad

[Piano Mouth]

I'm all about that bass, no treble, no treble

[Damon_Smith]

Is it double bass or bass guitar? There is a strong need for the bass guitar finding it's place in all areas of improvised music - you are going to have to do that yourself, outside Christian Wolff, you are on your own.
For double bass start with Polwechsel and Mersault, if you can track down Printer on Durian, that is probably still the best example.
All the players Jon lists are great, I'd add Margarida Garcia.

[jon abbey]

if you can track down Printer on Durian, that is probably still the best example.

I saw this trio live in Ulrichsberg not too long after the record, really nice set. Dieter was really killing it back then.

[Dan Warburton]

if you can track down Printer on Durian, that is probably still the best example.

I saw this trio live in Ulrichsberg not too long after the record, really nice set. Dieter was really killing it back then.

Lucky you! That's a terrific record, thanks for reminding me to listen to it again. What's Dafeldecker up to these days, anybody know?

[Damon_Smith]

I agree with Dan, but while Kowald is certainly not an EAI bassist there is actually more relevant material here than you might think.
Kowald got further into the instrument than most bassists, and much of his material can be recast in an EAI setting.

[quote="max"And in addition, just any recordings showcasing good bass performances on more standard jazz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYgICMxTAWg[/quote]