Performance art in the context of EAI

[Damon_Smith]

I know there are some huge threads on Mattin, Unami and Chamy but I want to focus on the relationship to historical performace art (Fairly thoroughly documented at http://www.ubu.com ) and what has been happening with performers like the three listed in EAI and related music. I'd say I am 100% for good performance art (I have done Ben Patterson & Brecht myself) but just as against screwing around on stage for lack of a solid musicial idea. I don't have a fully formed opinion of what is going on here yet, hence my questions below:

1. The obvious first question which I don't know the answer to, is how aware both the performers and the fans of their work are of historical perfomance art.

2. Are the fans the people who will roll their eyes at Han Bennink but eat up whatever Unami does? Rather than create a divide I might suggest letting it give a fresh perspective on Han, who is well versed in Fluxus and other art movements.

3. The idea that Unami is influenced by Kurosawa makes me think of how Matt Barney sort "hides out" in the art world so his work doesn't have to sit next to Herzog, Godard, Oshima, Kirostami and the other great filmmakers. The Cremaster series had great moments but his last "Drawing Restraint" (9?) was a big cheesy dud when put next to most any film at an international film fest.
So question here is: How do these perfomers hold up next to Acconci, Burden, Export, Schneemann, Abramovic, etc.?

[jon abbey]

some good questions, I'll take a crack from my own perspective:

"1. The obvious first question which I don't know the answer to, is how aware both the performers and the fans of their work are of historical perfomance art."

like I wrote in the other thread, I asked Unami specifically about Fluxus and what he knew about it and if his solo performance related to it, and his answer was that he knew almost nothing about it (which surprised me, but that was his answer). I also know very little about it, or other historical performance art.

"2. Are the fans the people who will roll their eyes at Han Bennink but eat up whatever Unami does? Rather than create a divide I might suggest letting it give a fresh perspective on Han, who is well versed in Fluxus and other art movements. "

I think the issue with Bennink is that he repeats himself quite a bit and it becomes schtick, much like Breuker. the first time he does something, it can be very entertaining, and of course he's a fantastic drummer (one Clusone Trio set I saw was incredible, like a great rock band totally locked in).

"3. The idea that Unami is influenced by Kurosawa makes me think of how Matt Barney sort "hides out" in the art world so his work doesn't have to sit next to Herzog, Godard, Oshima, Kirostami and the other great filmmakers. The Cremaster series had great moments but his last "Drawing Restraint" (9?) was a big cheesy dud when put next to most any film at an international film fest."

heh, this is a little unfair, as Matt Barney is super well funded and Unami is most certainly not.

"So question here is: How do these perfomers hold up next to Acconci, Burden, Export, Schneemann, Abramovic, etc.? "

this part is very interesting, and I'd be curious to hear someone like Nirav who is familiar with that world and came to some of the Unami shows speak to it. I know close to nothing about the work of those people myself.

[Dan Warburton]

How do these perfomers hold up next to Acconci, Burden, Export, Schneemann, Abramovic, etc.?

Chris Burden? Yikes, I hope you haven't given Taku any more bright ideas for new instruments there



Or maybe he could follow this example (Vito Acconci's Seedbed).. onstage, not under it

this part is very interesting, and I'd be curious to hear someone like Nirav who is familiar with that world and came to some of the Unami shows speak to it.

Paging Nirav. Maybe Damon you could expound on this a little more yourself too. John Duncan might be a good name to throw in here too. For myself, if it sounds good, I can handle it (I wonder what that Acconci performance sounded like heh heh)

[Wombatz]

I’m writing something about fluxus and eai-related stuff for the next Eartrip. I look eg at Beuys-Paik-Moorman performances and LaMonte Young scores, some of these actions seem a little closer in spirit than the hardcore performance artists mentioned above, who mostly work with the body as their means and end.

Anyway I’d say both Mattin and Unami (who are sort of at the different poles of their spectrum) are both deeply involved within a context and can’t be said to be “hiding out”. (Since he more or less sabotages his own musicianship, Mattin has a lot at stake.) I guess when you judge their work by the narrative of what they do, it’s all been done, no matter if they themselves know it or not. But like there have been abstract monochromes decades before the colorfield painters, a different context and approach to essentially the same thing can still make for fresh tangents.

I wouldn’t know how to judge this more ephemeral work against the performance heavyweights, but maybe it’s amusing that Abramovic has tried to explain away the burden of references that comes with one of her weaker pieces (the one where she and Ulay in turn slap each other till exhaustion) by saying: it was all about the body as an instrument for making sounds. If I took that seriously, as a piece of sound art I’d rate it several leagues below anything Mattin or Unami could ever think of, sight unseen and sounds unheard.

Chamy has “performed” fluxus pieces in an attempt to expose them as the emperor’s new clothes, and while he’s probably more historically aware than the other two, he’s just hopeless.

[jkudler]

i really gotta run, but this is an interesting topic. i think the example of the "durationalists"/body artists is not really apt; they just happen to be the most notorious performance artists (for what it's worth, i don't see burden as a performance artist; he mostly undertakes non-performative actions). fluxus is probably a better antecedent to the artists at hand, sure. i also recalled this guy, who i only ever heard of from jim o'rourke's chapter in one of those zorn "arcana" books:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnPeeW_5IkQ (at about :45)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjzraDsU_mc

i think it's less interesting to worry about if unami et al are copying or ripping off these precursors than to discuss through-lines, subconscious influences, the possible spontaneous incorporation of some of these prior performance concerns in musical contexts, the existence of some manner of "institution" to critique in the music world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_critique), possible changes in the zeitgest causing new concerns with eg relational aesthetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_art), etc. i do also think there is something significant in using these kinds of strategies in specifically musical/concert situations, for audiences from that world.

-jesse

[jkudler]

Chamy has “performed” fluxus pieces in an attempt to expose them as the emperor’s new clothes, and while he’s probably more historically aware than the other two, he’s just hopeless.

http://sites.google.com/site/diegochamy ... xus-pieces

[Jason Brogan]

Not performance art, but the descriptions and photographic documentation of Unami and Kawaguchi bring to mind visually the work of artist Sarah Sze (note the frequent use of ladders) and, perhaps more particularly, Gedy Sibony (see the cardboard sculptures created by the latter). Viewing in person a work by Sze, I often have the feeling that the entire work could collapse at any given moment! Additionally, Sibony's show last year at Greene Naftali was entitled The End is Very Fucking Nigh, which again reminds me a bit of Unami's work or apparent interests, especially those that might be influenced by Ligotti, Lovecraft, and horror films.

The various connections between Mattin and Unami, and the current Speculative Realist (or SR, this name has been debated and disowned by some of those involved, but I will nonetheless use it) movement in philosophy, should be noted. In Idioms and Idiots, Mattin collaborated directly with SR philosopher Ray Brassier, who has written some very interesting texts on noise. Moreover, Mattin has referenced the work of non-philosopher, François Laruelle, who has influenced some members of the SR group. Unami has collaborated recently with non-musician Jarrod Fowler, who maintains the non-musicology web site where there is a review of Unami's and Krebs' motubachii, among other recordings.

[Jason Brogan]

i think it's less interesting to worry about if unami et al are copying or ripping off these precursors than to discuss through-lines, subconscious influences, the possible spontaneous incorporation of some of these prior performance concerns in musical contexts, the existence of some manner of "institution" to critique in the music world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_critique), possible changes in the zeitgest causing new concerns with eg relational aesthetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_art), etc. i do also think there is something significant in using these kinds of strategies in specifically musical/concert situations, for audiences from that world.

-jesse

I definitely recognize some connection between Mattin's work and the Institutional Critique movement, but are you relating Relational aesthetics to Unami's work? For me the two are opposed as Relational art is about essentially human relations whereas Unami's work appears to be about objects in themselves.

[Damon_Smith]

I only think it only matters how aware the perfomers are if the work can't hold up next the precedents. Like Charlie Haden's lack of technique isn't a problem when the music is brilliant, but in later years with Jarrett and so many others he sure could have used the training others had!

The audience/critics/Etc., however should gain some understanding of the history before blindly accepting it. Again, I haven't seen any of it so I can't judge it myself. Oddly enough: I went out for a beer with a co-worker and ended up in a long, amazing conversation with Mr. Rowe himself about this and other things. He promised to chime in!

[jkudler]

I definitely recognize some connection between Mattin's work and the Institutional Critique movement, but are you relating Relational aesthetics to Unami's work? For me the two are opposed as Relational art is about essentially human relations whereas Unami's work appears to be about objects in themselves.

well, i have only ever seen him perform with his old laptop-controlled motors setup, but the descriptions here sound like he's working with the crowd and their expectations and the difference between performance mode and normal/personal mode (i.e. chatting with the audience, wandering off, chatting with other musicians, giving the audience things to do, etc.). i'm no expert, but the sorta tensions between the dictates of "art" mode and "person" mode seem to be a central concern of RA to me.

-jesse

[Jason Brogan]

well, i have only ever seen him perform with his old laptop-controlled motors setup, but the descriptions here sound like he's working with the crowd and their expectations and the difference between performance mode and normal/personal mode (i.e. chatting with the audience, wandering off, chatting with other musicians, giving the audience things to do, etc.). i'm no expert, but the sorta tensions between the dictates of "art" mode and "person" mode seem to be a central concern of RA to me.

-jesse

Good point – I now understand the connection to RA. I hadn't considered his working with the crowd (I was thinking only of his assemblages).

[Miguel Prado]

Not performance art, but the descriptions and photographic documentation of Unami and Kawaguchi bring to mind visually the work of artist Sarah Sze (note the frequent use of ladders) and, perhaps more particularly, Gedy Sibony (see the cardboard sculptures created by the latter). Viewing in person a work by Sze, I often have the feeling that the entire work could collapse at any given moment! Additionally, Sibony's show last year at Greene Naftali was entitled The End is Very Fucking Nigh, which again reminds me a bit of Unami's work or apparent interests, especially those that might be influenced by Ligotti, Lovecraft, and horror films.

The various connections between Mattin and Unami, and the current Speculative Realist (or SR, this name has been debated and disowned by some of those involved, but I will nonetheless use it) movement in philosophy, should be noted. In Idioms and Idiots, Mattin collaborated directly with SR philosopher Ray Brassier, who has written some very interesting texts on noise. Moreover, Mattin has referenced the work of non-philosopher, François Laruelle, who has influenced some members of the SR group. Unami has collaborated recently with non-musician Jarrod Fowler, who maintains the non-musicology web site where there is a review of Unami's and Krebs' motubachii, among other recordings.

well noted jason.
i found the work of Taku greatly influenced by the materialistic terror and especially for the environments in the ligotti´s work
i think that Mattin, Jarrod, and another people like marc baron and loic blairon or myself it´s more a set of approaches in some way influenced by the current philosophy Speculative realism, non-philosophy etc.. and the concept of constructed situation by I.S.
but also there is a lot of people introducing non-musical elements in the performances. I find very personal the things that diego makes, and i think that maybe it´s more linked with fluxus the work of Manfred Werder some Pisaro´s scores or the futow crew.

I understand that the huge amount of photos documenting the festival. and the awesome record of takahiro and unami. claim all the attention and seems that now the improv is moving to somewhere with no too much music and another things moving, but i think that for a long time there is a buch of more people triying to yield the walls....

[Miguel Prado]

3 years ago http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic. ... n+barcelos

[Damon_Smith]

[ if it sounds good, I can handle it (I wonder what that Acconci performance sounded like heh heh)

I am sure it sounded amazing. He had loudspeakers in the room and a micophone so he could talk about his sexual fantasies about the people in the gallery. I am not sure if he could see them or not. His early work is really incredible and most of it is on UBU. I love that he pushed it into a major architecture career by deciding the work was primarily about "space". I am not as into his architecture and design as much as his perfomance but it is nice that it got there.

I think taking the work as just sound isn't the way. If visual performance is involved that needs to taken as such and considered within the history of that work.

It is a little late in the day to "try to expose fluxus as the emperor's new clothes"! Fluxus was an institutional critque movement in it's own way. I will say that when I did Ben Patterson's "Variations for Double bass" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugVISHVNn-M ) I tried to do a very deadpan reading of it, and present the humorous aspects of it more coldly. I'd say in the bigger picture the enemy has shifted and is no longer institutions - the issue with them primarily being that they try to shape your thinking, but the real enemy is corporate pop culture that wants to shut down thinking altogether.

[jon abbey]

3 years ago http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic. ... n+barcelos

thanks for the reminder, Miguel. wish I'd made it to that one, that was the most tempting fest for me in the last few years in Europe.

[jkudler]

Fluxus retrospective exhibition in new york:
http://nyti.ms/r0i6pt

[diegochamy]

The Kōken Performance, by Axel Dörner, Seijiro Murayama and Diego Chamy:

http://sites.google.com/site/diegochamy/selected-works/the-koken-performance

[Wombatz]

Second most awesome passive aggressive behavior of a Küken on stage ever.

[negative potential]

Fuck performance art. I think Diego Chamy should hand out flyers supporting the Occupy Wall Street movement and urging concert goers to participate in local manifestations.

The revolution is depending upon you, Diego. Failure to act means having to face a tribunal when the good guys win.

[jkudler]

i can't tell how much of that is a joke, but are you under the impression that the one precludes the other?

http://sites.google.com/site/diegochamy ... io-poverty