tinnitus stuff

[user_10]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/01/healt ... ei=5087%0A" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;

seems there's some progress made in treating tinnitus.

i don't know about others here, but i have mild tinnitus (i only really ever notice it when falling asleep and/or i am drunk.)

i do worry about it getting worse (i'm only in my mid-twenties, so i presumably have a long time left for it to get more severe), but mainly that means i don't go to many noise shows and only listen to records at really loud volumes when i feel the record requires it.

it doesn't tend to bother me though, and i suppose its because i tend to view these sounds as musically/sonically relevant (meaning i listen to alot of eai). i suppose tinnitus might really drive one crazy if one has a different general attitude towards sound.

[user_1142]

i think rock and metal type of shows are generally much louder and more damaging than almost any noise show

[michael]

i think rock and metal type of shows are generally much louder and more damaging than almost any noise show

i dunno man, most noise shows i go to a pretty loud & theres usually always high/low-end noise that isnt found at rock shows

[jpeatt]

i think rock and metal type of shows are generally much louder and more damaging than almost any noise show

i dunno man, most noise shows i go to a pretty loud & theres usually always high/low-end noise that isnt found at rock shows

Letting people shout directly in your ears OVER loud music will do more damage than all of the above combined.

[jkudler]

i thought we had another tinnitus thread, but it was apparently the back end of the last erstquake one (starts here-ish: http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic. ... 77#p102577).

went to the ENT today to see about my tinnitus; after several years of occasional bad bouts that passed, it seems to have come back with a vengeance (louder and more persistent) the past few months. seriously seems to be worse after the recent, ahem, mattin/goldie show. ack. the good news is, i don't appear to have any hearing loss, and in fact the test said my hearing was "very good." so that was a relief (i was really getting worried when i was hearing patches of silence, but that was apparently normal). the consult with the doctor was fairly useless, but i did get referred to the "tinnitus center," which i was pleased to hear exists. i know they have some therapies, so i'm going to try that (and pray that my insurance covers it; note to people who oppose health reform in the US - who the fuck is HAPPY with their current coverage?!). does anyone have any experience with this? i vaguely remember a grad student when i was a freshman in college talking about it, and i read this new yorker article: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009 ... t_groopman. i guess it's what's covered in the above article?

oh, i see the therapy described as "90% effective" in that first article is "not covered by most insurance policies." awesome.

-j.

[kp*]

I recently had a run in with tinnitus (which i ordinarily don't have thankfully)... and it seemed to me a side effect of my taking melatonin (i do however, have really effing bad insomnia).... I stopped taking the melatonin and the ringing went away. I never heard of this and it seems like an only slightly documented side effect of melatonin, but just FYI...

[jkudler]

well, they asked me a bunch of questions about medications (is melatonin OTC or what - i have no idea. a supplement?), stress/anxiety, recent illness, etc., etc. it's quite clear to me it's chronic and not related to any of those things, though.

it was also mentioned that i could try quitting coffee, but that is never going to happen. . .

-jesse

[faster]

http://www.the-scientist.com/news/display/57920/

[fslmy]

I'm currently listening to the first track on Erstwhile release Giuseppe Ielasi & Domenico Sciajno - Right After, and wondering if the high pitch of the frequencies here and in other similar works can damage the human ear or cause tinnitus?

[Dan Warburton]

Absolutely. Ielasi and Sciajno are known former Red Brigade terrorists whose avowed intent is to render whole swathes of the urban population clinically deaf, working closely in league with subversives like Jon Abbey (and we all know that's not his real name), whose label has also released other harmful documents - Do (by Sachiko M and Toshimaru Nakamuthafucka) being an obvious example. I suggest you seek medical help urgently, and on the way to the doctors try listening to Vomir on a decent pair of headphones. That should do you just fine.

[jkudler]

my subjective sense is that those kinds of tones are not good in headphones and will aggravate tinnitus, but that could be just me. i haven't found much research on specific pitch areas and tinnitus; most of the material tends to focus just on volume.

-j.

[jon abbey]

I don't have tinnitus issues myself (fingers crossed), but my impression is that high tones on headphones can temporarily aggravate tinnitus but cannot initially cause it, unless of course coupled with massive volume. I think that via speakers, their effects (in terms of potential damage) are no different than that of any other music.

[schiksalgemeinschaft]

It might be total bollocks what I going to write, but I have the feeling that some high pitched records, or records with integrated sinetone(s) played through speakers at a decent (but not too loud) volume "refresh" or "clean" my ears. I have the impression that they "sharpen" my ears for some time afterwards. I even have the impression that listening to such records a couple of times a week keep my ears "trained". Even protected, as my ears/brain is reminded of what a real sinetone is, instead of an imaginary one - although I know tinnitus is first and foremost a physical thing, and only then psychosomatic. Of course this all is highly subjective, can't really prove it or something. It's just something I noticed since I've started listening to eai...


(Just to be clear, I don't have tinnitus, but do hear a high pitched tone occasionally, lets say for 5-30 seconds 3-6 times a month. I guess that normal. I've had it (mildly) for a day or 2 after a loud concert too, since then I always use earplugs in loud venues.)

[jon abbey]

It might be total bollocks what I going to write, but I have the feeling that some high pitched records, or records with integrated sinetone(s) played through speakers at a decent (but not too loud) volume "refresh" or "clean" my ears.

totally agree, I remember having this impression quite a bit when I was working on 'do'. I think the speakers have to be at least OK, though, again judging from my experience.

[Daniel Jones]

A musician friend of mine, who could've been taking the piss come to think of it, told me that the high-pitched sine tones stimulate the tiny hairs within your ears into standing upright which is beneficial to hearing... Apparently hearing music live and on headphones can flatten these little hairs which isn't so good...

Reading that back it looks like crap! Any ENT specialists here care to confirm or deny this 'little hairs' theory?

[jkudler]

uhh, i think that is crap, but i think basically you do have tiny cilia in your ears which are stimulated by sounds, and they can get damaged by loud noises. but i believe tinnitus is a different phenomenon, one in which you get false signals sent to the brain saying tone is present when it's not. i've seen it compared to phantom limb syndrome. the therapies i've read about essentially train your brain to tune out the tinnitus tones.

-j.

[jon abbey]

I think one reason that high tones can be damaging if you already have tinnitus is that you often can't hear them, so the tendency is to turn the music up louder than you would otherwise.

[jkudler]

i actually have the opposite problem: for as long as i can remember, i have been really sensitive to really high-pitch tones, and it was VERY hard to listen to eg toshi nakamura or sachiko m at first. i will note that all humans gradually become less able to hear high frequencies as they get older, so i wonder if this factors in (i also wonder if toshi or keith rowe is hearing the same thing i am). but i was listening to "between" just last week, and it was very hard to find a balance where the high tones weren't too painful but i could still hear keith's scrapes and rumbles below. i really only have this problem at home though, as the larger rooms where concerts are held (and all the people) generally seem to absorb or scatter these tones enough. i was pretty surprised the first time i saw toshi live how totally un-painful it was. but eg the first few minutes of "contact" are pretty tough sledding for me, and if anything i turn it *down,* making keith's contributions harder to hear.

-j.

[jon abbey]

yeah, I've certainly heard that from people also.

since you ask, Toshi has exceptional hearing, especially for someone his age, he's had it professionally measured and I think it has a lot to do with the power of his music, since he often uses frequencies that are inaudible to most/all humans. during those 'between' sessions at Amann, at one point he was putting out some frequencies that were making the monitors go crazy, but none of the rest of us could hear them (including Amann and Yuko, who also both have exceptional ears).

[mono tony]

i actually have the opposite problem: for as long as i can remember, i have been really sensitive to really high-pitch tones, and it was VERY hard to listen to eg toshi nakamura or sachiko m at first. i will note that all humans gradually become less able to hear high frequencies as they get older, so i wonder if this factors in (i also wonder if toshi or keith rowe is hearing the same thing i am). but i was listening to "between" just last week, and it was very hard to find a balance where the high tones weren't too painful but i could still hear keith's scrapes and rumbles below. i really only have this problem at home though, as the larger rooms where concerts are held (and all the people) generally seem to absorb or scatter these tones enough. i was pretty surprised the first time i saw toshi live how totally un-painful it was. but eg the first few minutes of "contact" are pretty tough sledding for me, and if anything i turn it *down,* making keith's contributions harder to hear.

-j.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis

since i've developed tinnitus i've had this problem. i have a hard time with disc 1 of between, and am paranoid that if i just 'let it go' (listen at moderate volume), it will cause further damage. this is the case with much of nakamura's output i've put on. i do often wince at sounds such as bus brake squeal, and i find headphones exhausting after short periods of use. it is mostly a close-proximity response, and i might prefer that to a dull insensitivity.

i believe diet/sleep also affect tinnitus intensity; eating well, exercise, and regular sleep routine=less tinnitus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibular_hyperacusis

this is also interesting.. i wonder if it's akin to synesthasia, regarding physical responses to sound.