Peter Hammill/VDGG

[frozen reeds]

Has anyone got any recommendations for someone dipping into the world of Hammill and Van der Graaf Generator for the first time?

I happened upon The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage in the library this afternoon and have had the amazing Red Shift on repeat since. No idea where to go next!

[leroysghost]

Vital is by far my favorite VDG [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vital_(album)] but it's hard to go wrong with the trilogy of Godbluff/Still Life/World Record. not a fan of their earlier, progier stuff, and as far as Hammill solo is concerned i'd go for The Future Now and A Black Box (Nadir's Big Chance is talked about a lot but i don't care much for it personally).

[jon abbey]

Alastair to thread!

[J.F.]

I can't refer to the piece you mention, since I only heard one PH-solo CD (from 1973, something with "chameleon" and "night" in the title - a record that didn't impress me that much).

Anyway I'd say do try out VDGG's earlier proggier stuff... especially "The least we can do" (69) and "Pawn Hearts" (71). The latter in particular includes a few passages that are quite bold musically, chaotic and lovely - in a way that doesn't appear again on their 75-77-LPs.
For some reason I find "H to HE" (70), my very first VDGG-LP, not so convincing.

"Time Vaults" (archive-material from ~71-75) is raw and low-fi rehearsal room-stuff mostly, but includes some of my VDGG-favorites! (they sound quite edgy there from time to time... not only due to the sound quality).

I remember there is not one song on "Still Life" I like. "Vital" has that violin playing I can't stand. On the mid-70s "Godbluff" and "World Record" there's only one song each I like - though I should add I generally prefer the more "composition driven" stuff, which doesn't rely so much on the lyrics/vocals (like much of that mid-70s stuff does).
I can specify two elements in the mid-70s recordings I dislike: most of those underwhelming, I'd say banal riffs (often dominated by the timbre of that electrified sax) and Hammil's voice (in agressive mode) when doublicated via overdub. Urgh.

I once grabbed a recent VDGG live-show from dime, and one of the new pieces sounded nice to me... I think "Interference Patterns".

[Alastair]

Oh well, since you asked...

If you like "Silent Corner..." and Red Shift in particular I would suggest getting its follow-up, "In Camera" - four-track madness recorded in his loft while looking after his seriously ill brother. Catholic guilt, musique concrete, it's all here. "The Future Now", "PH7" and "A Black Box" are less hazy and more concise, if not necessarily less complex, and are a good place to go if you want more. "Nadir's Big Chance" is good fun, "Over" a bit too personal perhaps. Going back beyond your starting point, "Fools' Mate" is a charming collection of early songs, "Chameleon In The Shadow Of The Night" is patchy, impassioned piano ballads rubbing shoulders with slight acoustic numbers and the VdGG left-over "(In The) Black Room" which (despite sounding like it was recorded underwater) sounds better on "Time Vaults", a VdGG leftovers album I don't suggest you get just yet.

That's the seventies dealt with. The trio of "Sitting Targets", "Enter K" and "Patience" at the beginning of the eighties are straightforward rock with a twist, especially the latter two which are with The K Group. The first is the strongest, the others have their weaknesses but aren't bad. a better respresentation of the K Group is the live album "The Margin" which sounds very odd as all audience noise has been excised (insert "no-one wanted to applaud anyway" joke here). There's an expanded 2CD version too. Past here, although I tried, (other than going to some great shows) I lose interest in the solo career. Maybe I should revisit it sometime.

VdGG splits into different times and (slightly) different line-ups which you may like more or less, depending on your taste.

Period 1 - Aerosol Grey Machine (1968) knocked off in a day and a period curio, really.

Period 2 - The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other, H to He Who Am The Only One, Pawn Hearts (1969-71) - psychedelic prog, intricate, sprawling, a hint of magick (Hammill lived in Graham Bond's house for a while). Pawn Hearts is the acclaimed classic - me I only really like the first side. Least We Can Do is my own favourite.

Period 3 - Godbluff, Still Life, A World Record (1975-77) Reformed, more focussed, the acoustic guitar has gone, a heavy juggernaut with more of an Science Fiction bent to the lyrics. Godbluff is one of my top ten LPs of all time, Still Life (much of which was recorded at the same sessions) worth it too. "A World Record" finds them discovering polyphonic synths and, erm, reggae. An album that's grown on me over the years.

Period 4 - they drop the Generator and the sax and keyboard players and bring back the bass guitar (gone since halfway through "H to He..."), adding a violin and (later) a cello (and bringing back some sax too) - The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome and Vital (1977-8). The first is a collection of songs rather than epics, and works well without being earth-shattering (there are better versions around of some of the songs). The second is a live double recorded on malfunctioning mics at the Marquee, which is perhaps one of the better Prog-band-accepts-punk-without-forgetting-its-roots records. Actually, how many of those are there? Maybe Hawkwind managed a few.

Period 5 - the Hammill's had a heart attack, let's get together one more time before we die period 2000s. Good live, not so sure about the records which sound like latter-day Hammill solos with a band.

As usual, I'd avoid Peel/BBC Sessions, compilations of unreleased at the time stuff etc until you've heard some of the proper albums and decided if you like them or not. The not-particularly-imaginatively-titled 4CD Box "The Box" is worth picking up if you get that far - lots of early BBC sessions and some cracker Period 4 stuff, rocking hard.

Grisha might have something to say too, I know he has done some investigation of PH/VdGG.

[frozen reeds]

Yes!

Thanks for inspiring, informative answers, especially to Alastair!

Time to get stuck in...

[carlos]

Period 4 - they drop the Generator and the sax and keyboard players and bring back the bass guitar (gone since halfway through "H to He..."), adding a violin and (later) a cello (and bringing back some sax too) - The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome and Vital (1977-8). The first is a collection of songs rather than epics, and works well without being earth-shattering (there are better versions around of some of the songs). The second is a live double recorded on malfunctioning mics at the Marquee, which is perhaps one of the better Prog-band-accepts-punk-without-forgetting-its-roots records.

the double live Vital is great- maybe it's the malfunctioning mics- but the best thing about this record is Nic Potter's thick fuzz bass - much more prominent than on the studio LPs and it sounds amazing.

[grisha]

Grisha might have something to say too, I know he has done some investigation of PH/VdGG.

actually i mostly went with you recommendations, so no. but i'll second (or third?) "Vital".

[Moon]

I got really turned off their later albums (after godbluff) on first listen, but after reading this I think I should give it another try.

I also thought to mention Soft Machine as something to get into, thinking there was a link. But I can't remember the link and google is no help. They were touring together at some point? Or perhaps it is just a band sometimes mentioned in a conversation about vdgg.

[Alastair]

For those of you who like the late-period Hammill/Smith/Dickie/Potter/Evans Van Der Graaf, check this out.

http://halsprogressiverockblog.blogspot ... rsity.html

In the middle of a big UK tour, two months before Vital was recorded, shortly after their Peel session. Almost as good quality sonically as Vital, six of the ten tracks different (I didn't know they did "Crying Wolf"). That guitar looks horrible though.

[billygomberg]

can't believe no one mentioned 1975 solo album Nadir's Big Chance. one of my favorite albums ever.

[leroysghost]

i did

[billygomberg]

i did

gah that's what I get for botching the title in my search & post. corrected. hooray morning posting.

[Alastair]

i did

as did I

[billygomberg]

i did

as did I

yeah I searched the thread for "nadir's last chance" wholesale (I flub the title a LOT for this being one of my favorite records). apologies for the sloppy posting.

[holy ghost]

Pawn Hearts / H To He / The Least We Can Do / Godbluff / Still Life are some of my favorite records of all time. The first thing I heard (Killers) was like a life altering epiphany, and while I enjoy Still Life/World Record those 5 are cemented in my brain..... Pawn Hearts took the longest time to absorb but is also totally worth that effort....... the Live At The BBC video I downloaded (from the internet) is incredible too.......

[tom k]

To add something, I'd recommend "X-My Heart" solo album - superb work. though quite many people (so called fans, you know) consider it "His Weakest Album". No, it isn't - is one of the best, definitely
Realy "structured" set of "tetural" songs, really cool...

[Alastair]

For those who may be curious, I'm playing a personal selection of PH/VdGG tunes on my radio program in just under an hour's time.

The show is called "25K: a quarter century of listening to Peter Hammill and Van Der Graaf Generator". An explanatory essay can be found at http://www.admirablerestraint.com/

It streams at http://www.finemusicfm.com, or if you're in Sydney you can listen at 102.5FM or on digital radio.

[johnson]

For me, The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other, H to He Who Am The Only One and Pawn Hearts are the zenith.
But Aerosol Grey Machine is quite underrated, I think. The first song, "Afterwards", in particular, is really lovely.