Wedding Ceremony - New on Cathnor

[Jesse]

Lucio, for a number of reasons, I always read your posts with great interest and curiosity. Thanks for that.

[Kyrre Laastad]

More Keith and non-listening:

Clearly the death of John's mother just a few days before the recording had a deep effect on how I perceived the "room". By room, I'm not merely referring to the space we performed in, but an altogether larger imaginary conceptual space, which included supporting John through this difficult closure, compounded with the threat of an imminent and illegal war. A considered, reflective and pensive mood enveloped me. Being strangely aware of John's movements, but not necessarily listening to what he is playing; not reacting to his playing but being affected by it. The act of NOT listening is very important, preferring juxtaposition to confabulation, disturbing the congruity and avoiding Pavlovian laminates.

Non Listening for me is about the intensification of the edge, or frame. This might be seen as an attempt to limit certain aspects of encroachment of the external environment, and it's almost always been part of my musical makeup. I'm very aware that it's almost heretical to praise not listening, but nevertheless I feel there is a place for it. I write these thoughts not needing or wanting to convince anyone of the correctness of these ideas, but only to explain how I approached playing these sessions.

If I attempted not to actively listen to John's piano as my hand descended towards the guitar laid out before me, what might happen? Possibly I might avoid triggering memories of the piano, memories that by definition would take me away from the immediate context and towards some looping representations of past occasions. Clearly this is not an absolute state because I imagine that some memory is needed to comprehend the present. But given that my aim is to focus my attention on the situation in that room, that room will likely contain thousands of references which will in turn trigger memories. The question for me then is how I might relate to whatever is occurring in that room, certainly not with any loquacious clarity but rather with the obmutescence of an object on a shelf.

So what I might mean by not listening is while I'm paying close attention to what I myself am doing, listening/hearing will be only a very small part of my comprehension of that complex room, or possibly listening might play no part at all. Listening will/may have become overwhelmed by the histories of painting/music/the instrument/ noise/the nature of success/the nature of failure/politics/poverty/ life/death/appropriation/who am I?, on and on. Despite these thoughts racing through me as my hand descends, failure beckons, there is nothing to prove, nowhere to go, nothing to do, perhaps there is only the prospect of failure, frustration, ineffectiveness, once more outmanoeuvred by the situation, hopefully to survive, and to carry off the moment another day.

From the beutiful and very very interesting notes posted on the Duos for Doris page yonder at: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com.

[Dan Warburton]

Wire review now out, for those with an online subscription.

[Jason Brogan]

Wire review now out, for those with an online subscription.

Is/will this be in print?

[hatta]

Wait wasn't Dan's Wire review published here? I clearly recall reading it. Was it memory-holed without even an indication that it was here?

[Richard Pinnell]

No, Dan posted his first impression after one listen in one of the threads, maybe the Now Playing one. I kind of hope he put a bit more consideration into the printed review

[hatta]

Are you sure? Perhaps you missed it as well. I swear I saw it, it had a line that had been cut from the printed version that I recall and it's final sentence was something along the lines of the people involved being mediocre composers but great improvisers.

[jon abbey]

yes, it was definitely here, in Dan's last post in this thread. presumably Dan deleted it because he's not supposed to post reviews from the current issue?

I hope he or someone else reposts it, as I'd like to see Richard or anyone else's response.

[Richard Pinnell]

Ah OK. I must have missed it too then. I haven't looked at this thread for a day or two.

I'll keep an eye open. Dan hasn't sent me the review yet and I don't have The Wire yet so I don't know what it said.
I somewhat doubt you'll see any response from me here though.

[jon abbey]

I somewhat doubt you'll see any response from me here though.

I figured, but it's too bad. you've obviously put quite a bit of thought and time into this release, as with your others, and it'd be interesting/possibly illuminating to read why you disagree with Dan (and believe me, you will ).

I know we don't agree on this, but to me it's an important part of a label owner's job to defend his releases when he thinks they're being criticized unfairly, or at least to provide a different perspective. for example, I'd love to read some detailed thoughts from you at some point on 'Buoy' (have you done this somewhere and I missed it?), a record which has yet to grab me but which I think might at some point if I approached it correctly/differently.

[jon abbey]

I have one issue with this disc that Dan didn't address in his review, which maybe you do feel like you can weigh in on, Richard. I asked Lucio earlier in the thread about the actual running order of the shows:

First night: Improvisation/ Radu´s piece/ Society piece
Second Night: Christian´s piece/ Taku´s piece/ Improvisation/ Radu´s piece.

the running order of the CD is Christian's piece/Improv/Radu's piece/Taku's piece/Society piece, with the first four from the second night.

so I've long contended that the major positive for Taku's composed pieces in a live setting is how they influence the other musicians and the audience in subsequent pieces (particularly larger group improvs), not how interesting/listenable they are in and of themselves. it seems like that's what happened here, as the improv that follows the Taku composition is IMO the strongest piece on the disc, but with the running order rearranged, it's hard to tell that without additional info like Lucio kindly supplied.

I could understand if the CD had been the full second night in order with or without the Society piece appended, or I could understand if the Taku piece had been omitted (this is what I did on the Seven Guitars disc of the AMPLIFY box, the track was later released by A Bruit Secret). but I don't understand the rationale for both including it and moving it out of sequence.

[Richard Pinnell]

Assuming I do disagree with Dan I'll probably discuss it with him in private. Too tired of public arguments these days, though I doubt we would argue.

Yeah we disagree about it being my job to defend releases. If someone said factually incorrect things about anything on Cathnor I would probably point out the error, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and I see no more reason for me to challenge that than on any other album. Obviously I think highly of things I release or I wouldn't release them. That should be enough IMO.

Regarding Buoy in particular it has probably received more positive comments and reviews than any other disc I have released so I am very happy the way things are without any comments from me.

[Richard Pinnell]

I could understand if the CD had been the full second night in order with or without the Society piece appended, or I could understand if the Taku piece had been omitted (this is what I did on the Seven Guitars disc of the AMPLIFY box, the track was later released by A Bruit Secret). but I don't understand the rationale for both including it and moving it out of sequence.

No idea. I never have any input into these decisions.

[Richard Pinnell]

I should add that the album works fine for me in the order it is now.

[Dan Warburton]

yes, it was definitely here, in Dan's last post in this thread. presumably Dan deleted it because he's not supposed to post reviews from the current issue?

Yep, you win the white carnation, Jon. Was requested to remove it (not that that would stop any other Wire subscriber cutting and pasting it in from the online edition if they so wished..). I've sent it to Richard and Robert by PM, hoping they'll continue the discussion here.

[Dan Warburton]

I could understand if the CD had been the full second night in order with or without the Society piece appended, or I could understand if the Taku piece had been omitted (this is what I did on the Seven Guitars disc of the AMPLIFY box, the track was later released by A Bruit Secret). but I don't understand the rationale for both including it and moving it out of sequence.

No idea. I never have any input into these decisions.

So who did decide the final running order of the pieces then?

[Richard Pinnell]

So who did decide the final running order of the pieces then?

If I remember correctly the musicians came to the final running order between themselves. As I have said elsewhere before I try and have no input into the creation of the music at all, and my role begins once I receive a finalised, completed master.

[Dan Warburton]

And what if you don't like the master? Do you release it anyway? Dunno, but I'd be more "hands on" in your position

[Richard Pinnell]

I don't say yes to anything until I've heard the master or at least something I am assured to be very close to it. Basically, I say yes or no to finished products. If I particularly want to release something by one person that may not have sent me anything I just ask them to bear me in mind when they have a completed recording without a home.