live-looping

[David]

Sorry I'm flooding the forum with questions, but here's another one. I want to live-loop my saxophone in order to make a multilayered drone-improvisation (although its apparently out of vogue ). I've been trying a max/msp-patch which is quite nice (it reduces the clicks and all), the only thing I don't like with it is that it records everything onto the same buffer so the volume stays the same all the time, when I want the effect of several instruments at the same time. Another disadvantage is the programming I have to do to get it to work with midi-controllers and everything.
Does anyone know a better way to do this? any good pedals around or so?

[barry]

take a look at Ableton Live. it does that really well. you can get a free trial at ableton.com

[the_semen_incident]

I second Ableton... It was suggested to me a while back, and it was the only software that was even close to what I needed.

Also: fuck being "in vogue"... I make music for my enjoyment, not to be in vogue.

[David]

take a look at Ableton Live. it does that really well. you can get a free trial at ableton.com

I've tried it for this purpose, but its hard to avoid the clicks and also difficult to mouse-click a new track while playing the sax! but maybe there are other ways to do it in AbletonLive?

[carlos]

i've seen a local noise group ("rotten piece") use one of these:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--LINDL4

usually with one-string "cello" thing, plucked or bowed - they use it for layering rumbling drone-noise doom-riffs and it works great for that. they play loud though, so the clicks might still be there

[Stephen]

I've tried it for this purpose, but its hard to avoid the clicks and also difficult to mouse-click a new track while playing the sax! but maybe there are other ways to do it in AbletonLive?

What about a volume pedal under your left foot, so you can fade in/out your loops to avoid clicking, and a toe-operated midi controller under your right with preassigned record keys? Are you ambipedal?

[Red]

I've tried it for this purpose, but its hard to avoid the clicks and also difficult to mouse-click a new track while playing the sax! but maybe there are other ways to do it in AbletonLive?

What about a volume pedal under your left foot, so you can fade in/out your loops to avoid clicking, and a toe-operated midi controller under your right with preassigned record keys? Are you ambipedal?

I haven't tried this myself, but I recall there being a snap-to-zero feature -- is this applicable?

Most of the loopers I know use the Line 6 DL4, some using more than one at a time.

[David]

Most of the loopers I know use the Line 6 DL4, some using more than one at a time.

i've seen a local noise group ("rotten piece") use one of these:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--LINDL4

Thanks for the tip, but I need more than 14 s of memory.

Digitech JamMan seems to be a good, but maybe a bit too pricey, solution.

[David]

Now I've been reading a bit about the softwaretools recommended at the looper's delight-site, and will try Ambiloop (since its free ) - looks pretty decent for my purposes.

[gohleekwang]

Now I've been reading a bit about the softwaretools recommended at the looper's delight-site, and will try Ambiloop (since its free ) - looks pretty decent for my purposes.

Looks interesting, just as simple as i can understand

and i still haven't find time to really try out your MAXmsp patch david

[Cloud]

I've been designing something like this for Max/MSP, the programming was really simple for MIDI, but I'm using just a MIDI footswitch (no faders etc.) so I could just split the 'midiin' through a 'select' object so that it sends the bangs in sequence to buttons attached to the different parts of the sample bank. The hardest bit was designing a suitable sample player/recorder, it's definitely worth using max though, if you have the patience for it.

[David]

I've been designing something like this for Max/MSP, the programming was really simple for MIDI, but I'm using just a MIDI footswitch (no faders etc.) so I could just split the 'midiin' through a 'select' object so that it sends the bangs in sequence to buttons attached to the different parts of the sample bank. The hardest bit was designing a suitable sample player/recorder, it's definitely worth using max though, if you have the patience for it.

It would be very interesting to try your patch! I found that the easiest and simplest way to do what I wanted was to download GuitarRig3 from Piratebay and use their loop-machine ... it works as a temporary solution...

[G-Wohl]

This probably isn't the answer you're looking for, but I truly believe your original approach is the purest and most common-sense method. By that, I mean that languages like Max/MSP and SuperCollider are, in my opinion, infinitely better for real-time audio and effects processing.

I'm not a Max/MSP guy, but I'm sure that, like in SuperCollider, you could instantiate multiple buffers in the same code, and then have your loop method output to individual buffers one after the other.

The thing about audio programming languages is that you have nothing to conform to. One is only limited by his coding abilities. I used to use applications like Reason, Reaktor, and Ableton as well, but found that they simply limited me in many respects. Then again, I'm a programmer as well as a musician, so the initial learning curves was not nearly as steep. To each his own, I suppose, but I would consider not giving up on your Max/MSP ventures!

[David]

just to illustrate what I'm trying to do. this is actually an old recording, thinking about making this longer: 15-20 min.
please let me know if there's any trouble with the download.


Sax-Loop

[gordon]

take a look at Ableton Live. it does that really well. you can get a free trial at ableton.com

I've tried it for this purpose, but its hard to avoid the clicks and also difficult to mouse-click a new track while playing the sax! but maybe there are other ways to do it in AbletonLive?

Live 8 is brand new, i just got it yesterday. it has a fully functional looper that i have yet to fully exploit, but it looks like a lot of fun.

[Moon]

For pedals, I would say the Boss RC-series seems like the best choice.
I have only heard bad things about the Line6 DL4, apparently it's really tacky and breaks easily. Maybe lots of people use them for circuit bends? Or got them cheap second hand because they original owner got angry?

Then there's the always fun tape-looping, Fripp style. You can make this by modifying a cassette recorder. Don't have the info about how around right now, but google is friendly.

In Max, I don't see why you have to use just one buffer? Making others should be easy.. or you could use two of the patches you have, in two windows, set to different on/off buttons or in midi?

In any case, before I am good enough at making maxmsp patches I'm completely happy with, I keep using
LLOOPP.
It's an easy and fun environment built in maxmsp for live improvisation.
Use the buff_ub act and make a new buffer for it in the main buffer selector. Play the buffers back in Flop.
Might be a bit messy to work around with at first, but in time it'll make you a happy sax player.
And Fennesz says it's good stuff, so who're we to argue?