experimental music from africa

[p_ano]

underrepresented, or are we just not paying attention?

"extreme music from africa" is not a contender.

First I produced a few experimental artists from South Africa and some northern African countries (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt) on my label Syrphe and there will be more to come soon.

Beyond ignorance and borders. An African, Middle-Eastern, Asian noise and electronic compilation from this label looks interesting. There must be more stuff out there. Anybody?

[jon abbey]

mark nominated yaala yaala on the other thread. I haven't heard any of these, is there one that stands out?

http://www.dragcity.com/catalog/catyaala.html

[vegetable mind]

i only have the first two "pekos yoro/diallo" and "bougouni yaalali" but both are outstanding, two of the best disks released last year without a doubt. while amazing, it seems strange to me to call them explicitly experimental, because a large factor of what i enjoyed about those discs was the incredibly comfortable nature of the performers(this comment probably merits further explanation but i'm too tired to do so right now). some of the sounds on those releases are indeed very strange and not what people are used to hearing in african music, but a lot of it is due to the conscious decision to leave recording flaws in, and the often lo-fi nature creates some strange aural dynamics when paired with the great sounds the musicians on the discs are producing. but i still wouldn't go so far as to say the music itself is experimental. as a release, maybe you could call it experimental, but even that might be a stretch. has anyone heard the 5th? i have an idea of what the 3rd sounds like, but didn't even know there was a new one.

unfortunately, while i was in south africa i didn't happen across anybody playing, interested in, or with any knowledge of experimental music. i didn't look very deeply because i figured that my chances of finding anything were slight, but i don't think i would've been very successful had i inquired further than i did. there were a few record stores i saw which i regret not hitting, and in cape town there's a really healthy electronic music scene, so there might be something lurking there, but i didn't spend too much time there.

[mudd]

i was making that stretch quite deliberately.

the label mostly music from malawi, i believe, and it's actually very traditional music. but as linden suggested, the presentation and context of the album delivers something quite alien, and the music is deliberately challenging (yy005 is warrior music, intend to incite). i suppose it would be more in the context of 'extreme music' than experimental music.

but then again, i've never been comfortably with the term 'experimental' for music. i don't think i would like for music to be empirical.

m

[jpeatt]

underrepresented, or are we just not paying attention?

"extreme music from africa" is not a contender.

First I produced a few experimental artists from South Africa and some northern African countries (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt) on my label Syrphe and there will be more to come soon.

Beyond ignorance and borders. An African, Middle-Eastern, Asian noise and electronic compilation from this label looks interesting. There must be more stuff out there. Anybody?

I think we're maybe looking in the wrong places. Western Experimental music has a continuity of sorts with composed music and jazz,and, obviously earlier avant gardes (don't start...), so there's no reason to assume that an 'experimental' musician in say, Thailand, would have any connection with this tradition. Their work might be causing riots ala Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, but it may just sound like traditional Thai music to untrained western ears. I can't think of any reason these musics wouldn't have an 'avant garde' of sorts.

As far as South Africa goes, I know that Billy Roisz and a few others (maybe Nakamura) went to a festival in South Africa, but I can't recall what, if anything, she said about local performers.

[bedouin]

I think we're maybe looking in the wrong places. Western Experimental music has a continuity of sorts with composed music and jazz,and, obviously earlier avant gardes (don't start...), so there's no reason to assume that an 'experimental' musician in say, Thailand, would have any connection with this tradition. Their work might be causing riots ala Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, but it may just sound like traditional Thai music to untrained western ears. I can't think of any reason these musics wouldn't have an 'avant garde' of sorts.

yes this is very true.
i've been looking at my discs and i can't really recommend much that fits (other than maybe the konono discs).

One that could perhaps qualify (minimal, abstract, ritual, experimental) could be the well known "Sacred flute music from New Guinea" discs from Rounder Records, though not from Africa, and a few gems on the different waters blogspot.
Close to that is one of my favorite discs by Chukp'a & Kim Tong Jun - Korean Kayagum Music: Sanjo, while again not from Africa, is a must listen.

I dig almost everything obscure i can find from West Africa Mali, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Ghana, etc (hence "bedouin" ) but while the music i have here is quite monotonic and free of form it's also very earthy (and mostly with singing) to qualify.

I also occasionally shuffle western experimental (eai, feldman, wolff, etc) with this type of world music as it often reveals characters in each other that are not recognizable on a straight listen. hard to explain though(!)

[bedouin]

Also, 1 disc that should definitely qualify as getting very close to traditional music but breaking all conventions is "Tayutauta" by Yumiko Tanaka (Improvised Music From Japan). Fantastic, but again not from Africa. Sorry!

[wren]

Living in South Africa there is virtually no real 'avant garde' music scene. We have a lot of jazz, traditional music and pop culture influences. Not much else.

Early this year we had the Unyazi Festival, curated by james webb (a south african sound artist, one of a couple): asmus tietchens, marc behrens, lawrence english, suddan infant and a few others performed. The previous festival of the same name was a few years before with pauline oliveros and fransico lopez amongst others. Other than that, absolutely sweet fuck all. Nothing ever happens here. If i sound angry its cos i am slightly depressed about the state of our music scene and it really sucks not getting to see any real live experimental music, except on dvd. There is very little of this music happening in africa as far as i can tell.

I think one way to spark interest in the music is to organize live events like the one i mentioned, but this hardly ever happens and when it does the shows are always poorly attended. There is just not enough interest. I think hearing this kind of music being performed in a live context can really turn people on to it... because in that environment they are forced to listen. And its more powerful and exciting than a recording.

What is termed experimental here is really just bad idm-ish electro. Some South African artists doing fairly creative music: james webb, richard kapp, brendon bussy and not many others. Virtually no black south african artists making "extreme music." I havent even heard of the extreme music compilation mentioned previously, it sounds fake.

[p_ano]

Some South African artists doing fairly creative music: james webb, richard kapp, brendon bussy and not many others.

these are three names i didn't know before. thanks.. below are some links i found googling:

http://ralphborland.net/jettysquare/spine.html (brendon bussy)
http://www.artthrob.co.za/04aug/artbio.html (james webb review)
http://www.openrecord.co.za/index.html (south african label)

i listened to a few snippets and they didn't do much for me, but at least we are in the right direction. so, south africa is on the map.

I dig almost everything obscure i can find from West Africa Mali, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Ghana, etc (hence "bedouin" ) but while the music i have here is quite monotonic and free of form it's also very earthy (and mostly with singing) to qualify.

i love this type of stuff, and it can be psychedelic, but maybe not very experimental.

but then again, i've never been comfortably with the term 'experimental' for music. i don't think i would like for music to be empirical.

i am using experimental in a vague sense here.. but you're right, it's not really the greatest term. how about 'taomud from africa'?

[grisha]

you really should talk to Cedrik if you wanna know more. the guy just visited here, and he has traveled a lot and knows quite a bit. he made a sort of presentation about his travels and the book he's writing, but i think i mostly missed the African part.

[cdrk]

Hi,

Cedrik here, I (sadly) have to leave in a few hours, go back to Belgium and France and will get time to send some messages about this interesting topic and ask questions too as I still make researches and miss answers.

Anyway, Africa stays the continent where I still have to search a lot together with the Mid-East (even if I got tons of info the past few weeks).

There are many reasons to hardly find experimental music in Africa.
Among them : war, poverty, economic crises, dictatorships, deeply rooted musical traditions, religion, lack of communiacation, lack of interest and so on.
These are basic reasons and there are some more which are less "basic" I think (back to that another day).
Of course we can suppose that political, social and religious pressure could push some people to be creative and experiment to express themselves.
It happens a lot in Indonesia for example.
But there are only few attempts in Africa.

As some also say, it also depends on what we or they call experimental music and what the definition(s) of this genre can be.
Konono N°1 in RDC is a good example. To some it's a fantastic industrial/experimental record. To me it sounds (as good as it is) like traditional music amplified through some DIY gear. Possibly a mini revolution but the primal intention was to make it louder with few tools neither to create a new genre not to make a revolution and conceptual art, such as some (dadaists, futurists, etc.) did in the past.
This is an experiment but the result is not experimental.

Anyway, most stuff happen in the south or north of Africa, in between, I hardly find anything but got some clue sometimes.

Some of you may know that Halim El-Dabh recorded one piece of pre-musique concrète in 1944 in Cairo.

Blahblahblah, back to this within one or two days and I post you some links.

[ryan]

check it:

http://www.errantbodies.org/African_Feedback.html

[vegetable mind]

check it:

http://www.errantbodies.org/African_Feedback.html

where is this available for purchase, i don't see a link on this page

[p_ano]

It happens a lot in Indonesia for example.

indonesia is a great example of experimental music developing with no ties to western music.

Blahblahblah, back to this within one or two days and I post you some links.

thanks for the post, and thanks for your hard work seeking out obscure sounds.

[AlbionMoonlight]

check it:

http://www.errantbodies.org/African_Feedback.html

where is this available for purchase, i don't see a link on this page

From Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/African-Feedback- ... 050&sr=8-1

[saturn]

not to change directions here too much, but I'm curious to hear more about the Indonesian stuff you're referring to. thanks...

[jpeatt]

not to change directions here too much, but I'm curious to hear more about the Indonesian stuff you're referring to. thanks...

Not sure what anyone else is talking about specifically, but these....


http://www.lyrichord.com/index.asp?Page ... &ProdID=97

http://www.lyrichord.com/index.asp?Page ... &ProdID=98

are pretty great.
mp3 samples on the pages.

[franz bieberkopf]

not to change directions here too much, but I'm curious to hear more about the Indonesian stuff you're referring to. thanks...

yeah. dunno if that merits another thread (an' i hate diverting this one), but i am curious to hear more about that too. hasn't necessarily always been my experience, but i guess it depends how one defines "experimental" in this context. Kecak for instance, might be construed as modern or experimental form, and while i wouldn't suggest that it was created by western intervention, this did play a role (for better or for worse) in its development for sure.

there was an interesting twofer from lyrichord in the 80s called New Music Indonesia, and i thought there was some western involvement there too, but maybe i was imagining that... hard to find info on it, just this second.

(edit: i see Jpeatt has beat me to the punch, but yeah...)

AS FOR AFRICA:

i think Francis Bebey might be a name to consider. but most of his work is from another time entirely.

if we are just talking about "taomud" (don't think i've ever used that word before, by the by)... i dunno if that is wholly worth looking for. granted if you could find some i'd certainly be interested to hear it. i'm not so convinced it's a super relevant form to many of the musical locales on that continent at this point. i'm not going to check back now to see if elsewhere, people have used the term "global music" in describing eai, but i think that has been part insinuated. i'd agree that it is most definitely an "international music", but i don't think that's quite the same thing...

that said, i know personally i've always found pretty visceral analogs of the experimental music that i listen to in many of the folk forms of africa (and else-not-west-where). there is no shortage of textural, rhythmical, and tonal probing to be found in many traditional forms documented across many of the discs on SWP, for example (predominantly field recordings from the 50s and 60s of various tribes throughout much of southern and central africa); and elsewhere, the traditional works of people like Alhaji Bai Konte, Alemu Aga, and Hamza El Din all seeming to be inform my own personal listening sensibilities on many of the same tangents as do works by contemporary western artists of various stripes. if i knew more about the contemporary scene in africa, i might hazard the guess that innovation and 'experimentalness' are likely to be found germinating more explicitly from more traditional forms, and some of the stuff on Yaala Yaala does seem to bear that out (i mostly just know the yoro sidibe album...).

while posting this i've been digging into the Nguni Sound on SWP which was recorded in the late 50s in South Africa and Swaziland. mostly just jawdropping sophisticated-sounding polyphonies.

i do think there is still yet room for stuff like this to inform taomuddied currents...
god knows there's no shortage of fascinating folk instruments that could be put to use, but that feels like a more superficial matter...

[p_ano]

not to change directions here too much, but I'm curious to hear more about the Indonesian stuff you're referring to. thanks...

yeah. dunno if that merits another thread (an' i hate diverting this one), but i am curious to hear more about that too.

yes, those two lyrichord discs are good examples. the music is traditional, but frequently ventures into taomud territory. for example, the first minute of "dija" by dody satya ekagustdiman could just as easily be a radian record. the music is not as fully realized as its western counterparts, but does show that "experimental" music can develop independently.

there was an interesting twofer from lyrichord in the 80s called New Music Indonesia, and i thought there was some western involvement there too, but maybe i was imagining that... hard to find info on it, just this second.

the albums were commissioned and produced by westerners jody diamond and larry polansky (frog peak music). it appears that they only served to record this music, and did not have much creative influence on the final product. if anyone knows otherwise, please speak up.

[Gerardo A]

Yesterday Surfer and I were talking about this thread; he's been in several African countries and I know a little about the African influence in Latin America. It seemed that we came to the same conclusions:

1) For Africans, and black Latin Americans (Cuban, Belizeans, etc.), dance is inseparable from music. It's incredibly rare to find instances when music is playing, be it live or in recorded form, and people of all ages/gender/economic status are not dancing.
2) Music seems to be an essentially collective, community-based activity.

Maybe these things have something to do regarding the lack of "experimental" music there.