do what to nyc?

[jon abbey]

please report back after the show and let us know that polwechsel is actually in the country, as that rarely seems to happen for their scheduled US shows.

and, it sucks that will couldn't get a NYC show, fuck NYC.

well, to be fair, his dates changed sort of last-minute (because of some visa screw-ups not will's fault), so it was tough. i think he was supposed to play the rasbliutto fest originally.

-j.

yes, I'm well aware. still, fuck NYC.

[b e]

.

[jon abbey]

heh, whatever. I tried a bit to set something up for will, but I was getting ready for my tokyo fest and couldn't really do too much.

it's true that you and the few people around you set up a fair amount of stuff (which I've been quite appreciative of, both privately and publicly, as you're well aware of) and it's true that I'm quite picky about what I attend (and even with that, I'm disappointed to disgusted with most of the music I do make it out to).

as for me, I set up shows here for years before you got to town, and eventually found that people didn't care so much. so it's true that I don't put so much effort in anymore, but I think I've done enough over the years that I'm fully qualified to occasionally complain about the state of affairs. I didn't say "fuck bryan eubanks", I said "fuck NYC", and I'm sticking to that.

and it's good to hear that GOD is doing a gig, looking forward to that...

[b e]

.

[hatta]

two men enter, one man leaves....

[jkudler]

so, will's set was really good, although the acoustics of the space didn't really flatter his set. um, at all. anybody go to the providence show?

heckuva gent, too. ask will about the hoochies.

-j.

[jon abbey]

but I think I've done enough over the years that I'm fully qualified to occasionally complain about the state of affairs.

That is very patriotic of you to defend your right to complain, jon!

well, one-liners aside, I spent a while thinking about this yesterday and wasn't going to post again if bryan didn't, but since he did, here goes.

what's sad to me is a situation where internationally respected musicians can't get shows if bryan or myself doesn't find them one. NYC should be bigger than that, there should be more options.

what's sad is that even when we do set up shows for those artists, sometimes only a handful of people come (I remember we got maybe 20 people a night at 'swissquake', as one example).

what's sad is that of the 40 or 50 musicians I really care about in the world right now, I can only think of 1 currently living in NY (losing tim barnes was a huge blow to NYC's scene, IMO, from both a musical and organizational perspective).

what's sad is that places like the stone and DMG can only exist now on the very fringes of manhattan, and brooklyn simply isn't the same. venues come and venues go everywhere, but we desperately miss tonic and we even still miss the cooler IMO.

what's sad to me is seeing stronger scenes, for different reasons, in the smaller neighboring cities of boston and philadelphia, both of which set up shows for will without any help from me.

anyway, obviously I love NYC. I've lived here or within a half hour drive my entire life, and I'm not planning on going anywhere. the food here is still the best in the world IMO, in terms of range and quality. but do I find the music scene here right now frustrating as far as it intersects with my own taste? most definitely, hence my original comment.

(sorry for doing this on your thread, will, although I'm guessing you'd agree with my original statement in context, it was pretty much meant for you anyway)

[jkudler]

where'd tim barnes move?

new york has gotten incredibly expensive and gentrified, and i think it's pretty much that simple. the good news is, this financial crisis could mean some new warehouse spaces open up!

also, for what it's worth, you'd probably have a different perspective on philly or boston if you lived in either place (and i've lived in both and could definitely talk about respective drawbacks. . . . .), but nyc also has a lot of great stuff that never comes here or boston that's just a bit outside this area of music (tons of great free rock shows all summer, contemporary composed music, jazz, etc.). plus spots like roulette or the kitchen that are mostly cheesy but sometimes really come through - september at roulette for example was very strong.

AND the food is indeed the best.

-j.

[jon abbey]

where'd tim barnes move?

kentucky, maybe a year or so ago. toshio kajiwara went back to tokyo, and dion workman back to new zealand.

you'd probably have a different perspective on philly or boston if you lived in either place (and i've lived in both and could definitely talk about respective drawbacks. . . . .),

sure, obviously, the grass is always greener and all that. but just the solo keith rowe set in philly last year and the presence of kelley/rainey and the not-so-far lurking lescalleet in boston put those cities ahead of NYC in the last couple of years for me. I asked mattin tonight, who's been in town for a month or two, what great music he's seen, and he couldn't come up with a single thing. losing the hook was also huge, no fun was a great fit there along with other music in that area.

but nyc also has a lot of great stuff that never comes here or boston that's just a bit outside this area of music (tons of great free rock shows all summer, contemporary composed music, jazz, etc.). plus spots like roulette or the kitchen that are mostly cheesy but sometimes really come through - september at roulette for example was very strong.

yeah, the thing with that is I've lived here long enough, and I feel like I've explored most of that already, and when I do dip in again once in a while, I usually end up afterwards wondering why I wasted my time. seeing devin the dude for free at south street seaport from maybe thirty feet away last month was pretty cool, but that's not really related to what I'm talking about.

anyway, I heard tonight that margarida garcia is back here for the foreseeable future, so if she and mattin do some duo shows (as brian o and I urged both of them to do), that could be interesting.

[jkudler]

yeah, of course it always seems better from afar. . . just seems like plenty of fun nyc stuff this summer (the feelies), not to mention art and film kick any other american city's ass cold. . . .

but even for this realm of music. . . i mean, as you mentioned, mattin and margarida are both back in nyc, pretty much everyone stops there on tour, issue project room is a pretty amazing venue (and its new location will probably be pretty incredible), etc.

anyway, I heard tonight that margarida garcia is back here for the foreseeable future, so if she and mattin do some duo shows (as brian o and I urged both of them to do), that could be interesting.

ha, philly shows in the works for both of them! funny. . . i had been emailing them both separately and then was like. .. . "oh, right." so maybe they can be coaxed into a duo, though i honestly had no idea if they'd be receptive, since mattin seems to have pivoted away from that world quite a bit the last few years.

-j.

[jon abbey]

but even for this realm of music. . . i mean, as you mentioned, mattin and margarida are both back in nyc, pretty much everyone stops there on tour, issue project room is a pretty amazing venue (and its new location will probably be pretty incredible), etc.

there's really not much of a etc is the point. yes, issue project is a very nice room, but people still need to play it, and too many I see aren't especially satisfying. anyway, stop arguing with me, you don't live here and my philly/boston point was merely one of many.

and yeah, mattin and margarida will probably play a duo if you ask, they already did a recording recently. it seems like a rare chance these days to try to draw a bit of music out of mr. mattin, margarida said if he screams at her, she'll bop him.

[jkudler]

there's really not much of a etc is the point. yes, issue project is a very nice room, but people still need to play it, and too many I see aren't especially satisfying. anyway, stop arguing with me, you don't live here and my philly/boston point was merely one of many.

were you being sardonic, or do you really see this as "arguing"? i'm merely offering a different take, having lived in both the cities you compare nyc to and having visited nyc frequently for shows over the last ten years. threads here in a "discussion forum" don't have much of a point when you can't tolerate different takes, jon.

i don't see what's so great about tonic - sure, i saw some great shows there, but it often had bar noise, and they had plenty of goofy shows there. i seem to remember a lot of fridge or HVAC noise at the last erstquake, too. issue may be in a crap location, but one can still get there, it has an awesome sound system, and the physical space is decent. i don't think there's a single comparable space in any other US city, with a full-time staff helping out.

you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but i have to say, to an outsider, i think the only serious competitor to nyc's status in north america would be montreal.

-jesse

[jkudler]

also, maybe a mod can spin a bunch of this nyc talk to a separate thread?

[Dohol]

Tim Barnes has moved...where? Kentucky? Uh...like where in Kentucky? ( God have mercy on his soul, by the way )..

[jon abbey]

tonic was more than just the main room, for this kind of music the main element was the weekly phonomena thursday night at subtonic which really helped build a bit of a community here for a while. also, whether there was fridge noise or not, the main room had an energy at its best that issue project will never have. I recall a few jammed rooms specifically (rowe/fennesz, otomo/voice crack at the first AMPLIFY, cecil taylor/derek bailey), where the air was virtually bristling with electricity. the hook had that kind of energy at its best also, as did the cooler back in the day. I guess the stone maybe could, although pretty much everything I see there seems to suck, but I don't get that feeling at shows in NYC these days. even the lambkin/lescalleet night, which I thought was fantastic, didn't have that same kind of energy in the air.

anyway, all of this was just from an offhand comment born out of frustration that I'm not getting to see will g. this time through. I do think that the NYC scene is pretty lame these days for all the reasons I've mentioned, but I don't really expect anyone to share my perspective.

[jkudler]

anyway, all of this was just from an offhand comment born out of frustration that I'm not getting to see will g. this time through.

hey, your money is good here!

[jon abbey]

I tried to get a ride down, the train is over $100 round trip and that wasn't happening, especially as I'm still jetlagged (and irritable, can you tell? )

[jkudler]

alright, you got a point for that!

for the future, i have had good experiences with boltbus and megabus both. wifi! and pretty clean.

-j.

[dave quam]

they do megabus on the east coast? that shit rules , i got a bus ride for 6$round trip chicago to milwaukee

[jkudler]

it's new, and maybe limited so far, but it does nyc<->philly.