eh... jungle/drum'n'bass?

Gaendaal · Post by **Gaendaal** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:16 am

JF wrote:I think I have a clearer picture now about my issue, so everybody just feel free to talk about "what's the latest in breakcore" or whatever.

I'm finding it hard to pin down what it is that you're looking for. Experimental drum and bass with real instruments and layers of noise?

J.F. · Post by **J.F.** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:42 am

I figured the combination I'm looking for (and trying out myself) kind of combines two extremes: the freewheeling energy of free jazz with the rhythmic rigidity of jungle/dnb-stuff.

As already mentioned, Bennink is inspiring here (he often plays this fast binary pattern-based time-stuff... almost rudimental drumming in many cases - and even in some of those high volume freak-outs). Also Joey Baron has both sides: the energy and rhythmic openess of free jazz, but also a very precise time-approach if desired... plus definitely other drummers I just don't know about...

Anyway I think drummers of that sort in some "advanced" high-volume drum'n'bass-setting could catalyse an immensely driving energy and open up an interesting field... and I had just expected that already has happened somewhere.

user_125 · Post by **user_125** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:17 pm

i just listen to the first few squarepusher albums when i wanna hear "jazzy" d'n'b. *shrug*

flies · Post by **flies** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:06 pm

yea burningn'n tree and hard normal daddy are what i would call excellent jazz/dnb crossovers. if you haven't heard those albums then don't write squarepusher off (the first one, a compilation of his early material, is the most 'acoustic').

I also recommend amon tobin's bricolage album, which far surpasses anything else he's done in its organic feel. It's more downtempo than jungle mostly, although there are some moments which definitely are jungly. Great album in any case.

roni size reprazent is the standout jazz/dnb crossover within drumnbass proper, their first album newforms is their best. I really liked it when it came out and like i say i still think it's their best but now i look at it with more historical interest than deep enjoyment.

franz bieberkopf · Post by **franz bieberkopf** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:53 pm

i was listening to the old Platinum Breakz comps from Metalheadz yesterday. not that it has anything to do with the original impetus behind this thread.

still. there's a lot to love about some of these old songs. a lot of these artists display a decent grasp of ambience and atmosphere (not entirely the same thing?). The Angels Fell by Dillinja will always be a favourite of mine, and i'd say the same of Dark Metal by Rufige Kru... two tracks that are downright plodding, and empty at times, and belie an interest in something other than just getting hepped up kids dancing.

user_3091 · Post by **user_3091** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:39 am

Richard, not sure how you can say

"an entire genre that is essentially based on one single drum sample"

I mean, any drum'n'bass album or compilation is evidence that that is simply not true.

My favorite drum'n'bass albums are Photek's Modus Operandi and Form and Function. His stuff under the Special Forces name is pretty good too. Dom & Roland's Industry is terrific too. You'll guess from that that I prefer the sparser stuff.

Other than that, the cheapo D&B compilation albums are great - most of em have all the right tracks from the likes of Dillinja, Ram Trilology, Ed Rush & Optical et al. None of whom ever made a satisfying album.

This doesn't really answer the thread question. From that point of view - the noisy stuff - well DJ Scud and his label, Ambush records, might fit the bill. Have a look at the http://www.raggacore.com" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false; website. The Bug's stuff maybe. I reckon there are probably mixes you can download from some of the related DJs. You probably need to google on words like Soundboy Blood Jungle Murder

Post by **mudd** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:08 am

presumably richard is specifically referring to the amen break...

m

user_3091 · Post by **user_3091** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:41 pm

yeah, that did occur to me. But even in jungle & early D&B when the Amen break was at its most (over)used it was still far from ubiquitous. And pretty much all the references people have given on this thread are to D&B heads that didn't cane the Amen break.
Hey, talking about jungle just made me inadvertantly use the word 'cane' for the first time since, ooh, 1996.

Richard Pinnell · Post by **Richard Pinnell** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:56 pm

Yeah I meant the Amen break, and yes my tongue was planted semi-in-cheek. There were other breaks used, of course. None were that far from the amen break however. The point I was trying to make was that the music (to me at least) gets pretty boring pretty fast if you try listening for extended periods, simply because even the most extreme material doesn't stray too far from the basic d&b model.

Post by **mudd** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:40 pm

it's sort of weird, through like three generations of d'n'b revival the amen break is always where it begins. sure, the best of it eventually strays fairly far from there, but the heart of the music is still that stutter.

pretty sure straight-up amen d'n'b isn't what the original poster was looking for, though.

m

Richard Pinnell · Post by **Richard Pinnell** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:57 pm

I'm not sure that Luke Vibert's early Plug EPs have been mentioned yet, a little more experimental stuff I quite liked. was never so struck on his Wagon Christ material however.

Oddly I was walking through town today and saw a poster for a local show by Dillinja... oh if I was only 20 years younger

jon abbey · Post by **jon abbey** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:12 pm

if only he was 10 years younger...

I was into this stuff at the time, not sure if almost any of it is has anything to do with jazz (and the ones that do tend to really suck). so assuming the conversation has moved just to jungle classics, a crucial one that hasn't been mentioned yet is A Guy Called Gerald-Black Secret Technology.

that DJ Scud/Ambush stuff was very good for a while. I was supposed to do a CD with Scud's buddy I-Sound (duo with Tim Barnes) that ended up not working out in the end, they did a set in AMPLIFY 2003 which was pretty much a huge failure. I saw one Scud live show here, downstairs at Tonic, that was killer.

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:05 am

jon abbey wrote:that DJ Scud/Ambush stuff was very good for a while. I was supposed to do a CD with Scud's buddy I-Sound (duo with Tim Barnes) that ended up not working out in the end, they did a set in AMPLIFY 2003 which was pretty much a huge failure. I saw one Scud live show here, downstairs at Tonic, that was killer.

jon- have you heard the Wasteland (Scud + I-Sound) releases? if so, what do you think?

i have two 12"s which are just the more beat-oriented tracks from the CDs- haven't picked up the CDs though

jon abbey · Post by **jon abbey** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:03 am

carlos wrote:jon- have you heard the Wasteland (Scud + I-Sound) releases? if so, what do you think?

I have what I think are the first two (Amen Fire/October), and maybe had the third and sold it? they're way more polished/slick than I'd like, in general, and increasingly so as they moved on.

I-Sound self-released some solo 7 inches at one point under different pseudonyms, which were kind of harsh noise with a reggae influence and really cool. those were probably the best things I heard from him on record, I should dig them out sometime.

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:23 am

thanks

i have a couple of those 7s- i think one on Full Watts and one on Broklyn Beats

he played a solo (laptop) set in austin a few years ago- i heard some good things about it but wasn't able to make it up there

user_1026 · Post by **user_1026** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:56 am

bamba claaaaaaat!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=72gVP5b5rEY" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false; = my jam

here are some mixes

http://www.iainn.com/mixes/OneInTheJung ... jungle.htm" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:52 pm

carlos wrote:... Full Watts ...

Fuck, completely forgot about those, what a taste-making label that proved to be. I think Scud's Kill or be Killed (Full watts 01) could be considered the very beginning of the 'yardcore' scene.

jon abbey · Post by **jon abbey** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:18 pm

scrawny git wrote:
carlos wrote:... Full Watts ...
Fuck, completely forgot about those, what a taste-making label that proved to be. I think Scud's Kill or be Killed (Full watts 01) could be considered the very beginning of the 'yardcore' scene.

first time I ever heard that term, any recordings you'd highly recommend in this area?

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:48 pm

'Yardcore' is just UK twang for ragga-sampling breakcore, guessing from your praise for I-Sound's harsher abstracter output you might find a lot of that stuff too clean and beat-driven (the production values of Kill or be Killed have rarely been emulated with quite so much distortion - a shame). You must have heard some Enduser, he's big on ragga influences. And one of the Peace Off offshoots Damage put out a lot of great 12s for a while, as of course did Kid 606s Shockout (in fact kinda flooded the market). What I'd like to hear is some crazy Jamaican Dub artist add a few DOD boxes to their setup and start to tear down the dance afresh.

flies · Post by **flies** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:45 pm

for 'yardcore' (the term is new to me too, i've heard 'ragga hardcore'...) i also recommnd soundmurderer, a great dj. his stuff is not clean, it's raw and rough; the genre is rather amen-heavy tho, to be sure.

In general, I find techno (meaning electronic dance music generally) to be very trend-driven and things vary a lot from year to year, even month to month if you really pay attention. As such, knowing where to look in time will help you find the music you like.

for dnb i like 95-97 and 99-02, (between which i think tech-step and jump-up predominated, and i'm not fond of either (or the other stuff from that period), after which everything is too clean and bland, before which is old-school which is cool too but not dnb per se). Doc Scott and Marcus Intalex are two of my favorite DJs.