Latter-day jazz

[maRi]

and of course i forgot:

http://efi.group.shef.ac.uk/labels/ogun/ogunc101.html" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;

nice, i thought of the dedication orchestra, but i've only heard ixesha. you prefer spirits rejoice? anyhow, i quite like some of it, though i really dislike keith tippett's arrangement of opportunities, suitably titled lost opportunities. mofolo is my favourite. i think original versions of both tracks are on down south by harry miller quintet, which definitely deserves a mention since you've gone a bit in that direction (i thought it doesn't really fit the thread's original intention) as do abduallah ibrahim and dollar brand.

[grisha]

and of course i forgot:

http://efi.group.shef.ac.uk/labels/ogun/ogunc101.html" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;

nice, i thought of the dedication orchestra, but i've only heard ixesha. you prefer spirits rejoice? anyhow, i quite like some of it, though i really dislike keith tippett's arrangement of opportunities, suitably titled lost opportunities. mofolo is my favourite. i think original versions of both tracks are on down south by harry miller quintet, which definitely deserves a mention since you've gone a bit in that direction (i thought it doesn't really fit the thread's original intention) as do abduallah ibrahim and dollar brand.

i haven't heard Ixesha. I think Brand's/Ibrahim's (as is most South-African musician's) best work was done before the first half of the 70s ended (at least from what i managed to hear when i still was digging in), and the thread asked for stuff after that. Ever heard "African Space Program"? blew my roof off.

But let's move to Japan, Yosuke Yamashita specifically. Saw a recording of his concert with Hozan Yamamoto on TV, and have been a fan ever since. i have "Clay" (1974) on LP, and his Waldron tribute (1988). he has moved from free jazz to this inside/outside angular playing in the meantime, but still just as compelling to me.

[user_801]

- Ornette Prime Time - 'Body Meta', 'Dancing in your head'
- Ornette - 'Soap Suds Soap Suds'
- James Blood Ulmer - 'Are you glad to be in America', 'Freelancing'
- Music Revalation Ensemble - 'No Wave'
- Ronald Shannon Jackson & The Decoding Society - 'Man Dance', 'Barbeque Dog'
- Old & New Dreams - 'Playing'
- Keith Jarrett's American quartet - (especially when Keith isn't playing)
- Henry Threadgill - anything
- David Murray & Milford Graves - 'Real Deal'
- Last Exit - 'Head first into the flames'
- Peter Brotzmann Die Like a Dog Quartet - 'Fragments of Music, Life and Death of Albert Ayler'
- Art Ensemble of Chicago - 'Live In Japan'
- Sonny Sharrock - 'Ask the Ages'
- Mark Simmonds Freeboppers- 'Fire' (australian tenor sax player)
- Nude - 'Side of Clues' (australian free funk band)

[fearandpanic]

Keith Jarrett's American quartet - (especially when Keith isn't playing)

Ha! I'd say the same about Kenny Wheeler's Gnu High quartet (1975); Wheeler, Dave Holland, yes! (especially his solos), Jack DeJohnette, yes!, and Jarrett, uh. But he really does play a lot.

[rainey]

two folks worth mentioning that i haven't noticed in this thread:

wayne shorter (i really enjoy the recent live albums, but i like pretty much anything he does)

paul motian (i particularly like the trio live in tokyo and monk in motian)

but, i'm really curious to hear about musicians who didn't really start playing until the 80's or so. i see a few mentioned, but i would hope there are more.

[Dohol]

two folks worth mentioning that i haven't noticed in this thread:

wayne shorter (i really enjoy the recent live albums, but i like pretty much anything he does)

paul motian (i particularly like the trio live in tokyo and monk in motian)

but, i'm really curious to hear about musicians who didn't really start playing until the 80's or so. i see a few mentioned, but i would hope there are more.

Shorter ( who I love ) is in his seventies. Motian is in his sixties.

Where are the young masters ( 80's )? I don't think the tradition's really produced any..
I think there are young masters, young lions. But I don't think They're playing " Jazz ". ( with a few exceptions )

Steve Lacy once compared Jazz to a volcano that once was in violent eruption but was now only giving out a few stray sparks.

That's very sad, but I think it's also very true.

[maRi]

Steve Lacy once compared Jazz to a volcano that once was in violent eruption but was now only giving out a few stray sparks.

That's very sad

why?

I think Brand's/Ibrahim's (as is most South-African musician's) best work was done before the first half of the 70s ended

yes....i was listening to african sun yesterday, and really enjoying it; recorded between 1971 and 1979, but released in 1988, i think. so, a bit confusing.

[Dohol]

.

That's very sad

why?

[/quote]


A dumb question but I'll try and answer it for you.

When you have a tradition that once produced works of great art, that was once vital and overflowing with ideas, that once produced artists who could stand alongside masters in any other artistic tradition reduced to a meal ticket for pedagogues promising mastery in four semesters ( I perhaps exaggerate ), I would consider that a loss....

Loss makes me sad. X=X Simple.


I'm not saying nothing good has come from the conservatory. Quite to the contrary. Jazz is just fossilizing itself that's all.

[mitch]

>> Keith Jarrett's American quartet - (especially when Keith isn't playing)

OK, I'll bite -

why, pray tell?

>>Ha! I'd say the same about Kenny Wheeler's Gnu High quartet (1975); Wheeler, Dave Holland, yes! (especially his solos), Jack DeJohnette, yes!, and Jarrett, uh. But he really does play a lot.

You mean 'playing a lot' negatively there? I don't see how in terms of the density of events in his playing he's any different from Dave or Jack on that record. Or do you simply mean that he's got a lot of face time, given the solo piano spots [the existence of which were due to Wheeler's writing], therefore making the album a bit tougher if you don't really dig Keith? Just curious.

I used to be a Keith freak, then I pulled out for years to detox. Upon revisiting him in recent years, I'd rank his output as such:

tied for first: 'American' quartet [yes, including when he plays] and the Miles stuff [just incredible - the Cellar Door sessions were a holy grail for me in part because of him]

The '70s solo piano material [Facing You is beyond reproach, I also enjoy the Sun Bear Concerts, which get a bad rap because he released 5 concerts at once]

standards trio from 1982 up through and including The Cure, with the Blue Note box being the turning point, negatively speaking]

Euro quartet - I used to love them, but I really don't feel the need to listen to them ever again, with the possible exception of Nude Ants

standards trio since 1995 - total rehash, the fire's gone


to paraphrase Ron Burgundy: 'just throwing it out there. If you like it, you can have it, if not, send it right on back...'

-mm

[free math]

seems like every single person named in this thread has been around since the 60s. how about some non-senior citizens? yes, it's a struggle to come up with any, but i feel that there are some.

dave douglas (trumpet) makes pretty music, often with a kind of chamber-jazz feeling. i especially like the "charms of the night sky" quartet, with accordion, violin and bass.

brad mehldau also makes nice, pretty music. most of his albums are trios, but "largo" is a good one with more varied instrumentation and production.

a little less dad-friendly (see their "youth oriented") is happy apple -- drums, sax, bass guitar trio with a huge range and a great live show. best album is "body popping, top rocking, moon walking."

[fearandpanic]

You mean 'playing a lot' negatively there? I don't see how in terms of the density of events in his playing he's any different from Dave or Jack on that record. Or do you simply mean that he's got a lot of face time, given the solo piano spots [the existence of which were due to Wheeler's writing], therefore making the album a bit tougher if you don't really dig Keith? Just curious.

Yeah, the latter is what I mean, there are some solo sections in particular I don't care for. His harmonic language doesn't really appeal to me most of the time, so I could say indeed that I just don't really dig Keith. (I'm aware a certain amount of that is bound up with Wheeler's compositions in that particular case.)

seems like every single person named in this thread has been around since the 60s. how about some non-senior citizens?

I'm not sure how true that is, a good number of the musicians of the "loft scene" of the late 70s-early 80s I'd consider a post free-jazz next generation. I presume most people would agree that the conservative/neo-classical ideas of the 80s (young lions?) were bound up with the death agonies of jazz (themselves probably the product of the unsustainability of a publically disconnected "avant-garde" in jazz.) The so-called loft period seems to me a genuine continuation of the musical underground that free-jazz was forced into at the end of the 60s (and it brought with it a number of younger musicians).

[tadk]

i especially like the "charms of the night sky" quartet, with accordion, violin and bass. "

me too. the first disc is beautiful.
But if I have to choose one middle aged artist, it would be Matthew Shipp.

[user_801]

>> Keith Jarrett's American quartet - (especially when Keith isn't playing)

OK, I'll bite - why, pray tell?
-mm

for me jarrett just plays too much, too often and too many notes, too much grunting! I also like his contributions to the cellar door sessions etc, but by the mid 70's for me his playing is a bit too much pianoisticy wanking. Having said that I do like some of his playing in the american quartet, but no where near as much as the others.
I love hearing dewey redman and charlie haden play together (big fan of ornette, old and new dreams etc). Their way of dealing with harmonic open-ness, for me Jarret covers too much ground for the simpleness of Haden's harmony to really come to life.
Sometimes listening to that band I feel that when Jarrett drops out the band really picks up, comes alive some more.

[Dohol]

I don't dig Jarrett's grunting either but that quartet was great.

I totally wore out my copy of Survivors Suite. I might not like those records as much if I heard them now, ( years have gone by and my tastes have changed ) but I remember them fondly.

[user_801]

yeah survivors suite is a good one. if I remember right I read that this concert was the last one dewey redman did with jarrett, they had a big falling out and redman was so pissed off at jarrett that he refused to come on stage and play which is why nearly the half the album is that vamp while they were waiting for dewey to come and play...
blah blah, jazz stories!

[Gerardo A]

Yeah, that story is true but the concert was the one released as "Eyes of the Heart" (Dewey Redman was drinking wine backstage and missed his cue, hence the long vamp).

[maRi]

Steve Lacy once compared Jazz to a volcano that once was in violent eruption but was now only giving out a few stray sparks.

That's very sad

why?

A dumb question but I'll try and answer it for you.

thanks for trying. you seem to like to be sad about a lot. the above, however, is analogous with saying that life is sad, which is a sad thing to say, and dumb to generalise.

[mudd]

what the hell?

m

[faster]

why?

A dumb question but I'll try and answer it for you.

...the above, however, is analogous with saying that life is sad, which is a sad thing to say...

Why?


I ask this entirely in jest. I don't even care.

[Dohol]

why?

A dumb question but I'll try and answer it for you.

thanks for trying. you seem to like to be sad about a lot. the above, however, is analogous with saying that life is sad, which is a sad thing to say, and dumb to generalise.

Actually I'm not " sad about a lot " I've got much to be happy about. My muse has returned, so I'm making a lot of music. My garden wasn't too badly damaged by a hail storm so I'm getting fresh lettuce and basil. My children are on summer break so I have their lovely company. My wife got tenure so she's happy ( that makes me happy. and less stressed...) And I'm looking forward to my mystery adventure in Philadelphia. Plotting and planing.

Loss is sad. Loss is tragedy. But there is much more to life than loss.

the above, however, is analogous with saying that life is sad, which is a sad thing to say, and dumb to generalise.

How does my saying " loss is sad " lead to " life is sad "?

Now that's a generalization.