[quote="hatta"]As is probably obvious from my reports I'm with those that highly enjoyed the ambient sounds, including the cell phones and chips and so on. They all fit in and were part of the soundscape. quote]
The music's primarily an urban phenomenon so a lot of ambient city noise is to be expected, though now I want to wade back through the Erstlives etc and listen for city/audience noise - my perception is that it's curiously absent in live recordings, but I'm probably wrong. As for talking through a quiet set, it's inexcusable - if you're not interested enough in the performance to shut up, then taking your conversation outside takes nothing away from it, but it might take away from the experience for the rest of the people. It's selfish and obnoxious, like teens shining a laser pointer on the screen at the movies. Only it's people who ought to know better. I think the potato chips were during the Jerman/Davis performance and Greg says he wished he'd heard the chips, so I guess the snackers get a pass. Maybe the desire for quiet is "fascistic," but blabbing through the performance forces their conversation, their apparent disinterest, on me despite the fact I have no desire to hear it. Cell phones? They're accidental on the one hand, but on the other hand the audience was specifically asked to turn them off, again and again.
ErstQuake 3
[quote="gtd"]maybe this was an homage of some sort because i really love potato chips.
i dunno.
Ah, good thing you didn't notice, then - you'd have been so overcome with desire for salty snacks that you'd have stopped playing. Word would spread and like margarita-supping Parrotheads, you'd be mobbed by snacking fans, or "Crunchers," as they'd come to be known.
i dunno.
Ah, good thing you didn't notice, then - you'd have been so overcome with desire for salty snacks that you'd have stopped playing. Word would spread and like margarita-supping Parrotheads, you'd be mobbed by snacking fans, or "Crunchers," as they'd come to be known.
my phone made a noise when i was shutting it down! sorry!Seevig wrote:Maybe the desire for quiet is "fascistic," but blabbing through the performance forces their conversation, their apparent disinterest, on me despite the fact I have no desire to hear it. Cell phones? They're accidental on the one hand, but on the other hand the audience was specifically asked to turn them off, again and again.
hey, as far as "fascistic," i said that it's reasonable to ask people to stop talking; it's when everyone has to be on pins and needles that it's oppressive - when people can't shift or clear their throats, etc.
-j.
No anechoic chambers, but the occasional set in a living room is a nice treat. Tonic was great overall, you guys and Tonic were great about managing noise as much as you could and again, the sound environment's part of the experience. My complaints are about the behavior of a few people during a few sets, nothing more.jon abbey wrote:do you guys normally go to concerts in anechoic chambers? granted I was sitting near the front for most of it, but Tonic seemed pretty damn quiet to me. I can only imagine what the reactions would have been if I hadn't managed to keep the downstairs quiet during all of our sets...
jon, because i was mingling most nights and also didn't want to take a seat from a paying customer, i spent a good portion of the fest on my feet in the back and i can tell you the room noise was a little overwhelming back there. most of it i didn't mind, but the consistent (or hyperbolic constant) opening & shutting of the door was the one thing that got to me.
I will say that the AC being still on (even though I'd asked to have it off) at the start of the Cosmos set drove me nuts. I couldn't do anything about it myself because I was too close to the front, but I got Mattin's attention and he took care of it.
outside of that, I thought for a show in Manhattan in a space that size, it was as quiet as I could have hoped for. maybe a venue like Collective: Unconscious would have been better suited for the quieter sets, but no way something like the Dilloway/Marhaug would have been nearly as good there.
outside of that, I thought for a show in Manhattan in a space that size, it was as quiet as I could have hoped for. maybe a venue like Collective: Unconscious would have been better suited for the quieter sets, but no way something like the Dilloway/Marhaug would have been nearly as good there.
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user_2759
I found Tonic a terrible environment for this music.
Perhaps if I were one of the lucky ones to get a seat up front I would have felt differently, but the cash register, ventilation system, sound of people going in and out of the bathrooms...all of it was terribly distracting to me during Barnes/Jerman/Meehan and beyond. There are environments where the ambient sound seems to fit perfectly. This (for me) was not one of them.
That said, for the most part I can't really fault anyone. Most seemed to be trying to be quiet and respectful, but without enough seats for even a third of the audience, inevitably many would be left standing, and it's much harder to stay quiet that way. And the more people standing the worse the sightlines are. Anyway, after waiting for over an hour outside, and paying $25 bucks to get in, it was depressing to me.
Perhaps if I were one of the lucky ones to get a seat up front I would have felt differently, but the cash register, ventilation system, sound of people going in and out of the bathrooms...all of it was terribly distracting to me during Barnes/Jerman/Meehan and beyond. There are environments where the ambient sound seems to fit perfectly. This (for me) was not one of them.
That said, for the most part I can't really fault anyone. Most seemed to be trying to be quiet and respectful, but without enough seats for even a third of the audience, inevitably many would be left standing, and it's much harder to stay quiet that way. And the more people standing the worse the sightlines are. Anyway, after waiting for over an hour outside, and paying $25 bucks to get in, it was depressing to me.
it seemed to me that for most of the sets it was pretty easy to find a space on the floor or on the wall somewhere pretty close if you tried. there was open floor space up front during more than a few sets.
and Reuben, not to quibble with your numbers, but if you waited out front for more than an hour, you could have gotten a seat if you wanted on any of the nights. an hour before doors, virtually no one was there on any of the nights, except maybe Grisha.
and there were seats for more than a third of the audience on all nights except Saturday (and even then if you count stools), and the tickets were $18 plus a drink to see five sets, not $25.
anyway, sorry you didn't enjoy yourself. if you didn't feel like you got your money's worth, send me an e-mail and we can talk about it, if you want.
and Reuben, not to quibble with your numbers, but if you waited out front for more than an hour, you could have gotten a seat if you wanted on any of the nights. an hour before doors, virtually no one was there on any of the nights, except maybe Grisha.
and there were seats for more than a third of the audience on all nights except Saturday (and even then if you count stools), and the tickets were $18 plus a drink to see five sets, not $25.
anyway, sorry you didn't enjoy yourself. if you didn't feel like you got your money's worth, send me an e-mail and we can talk about it, if you want.
don't get me wrong, I don't think that Tonic (or the venues we used for the first two, Clemente Soto Velez and Collective: Unconscious) are ideal, far from it. it's impossible to find good venues that are interested in this kind of music and can hold 100-150 people, if anyone has any actual ideas for next year's, I'm certainly open.
but for this year, for the range of aesthetics we presented, I thought Tonic was a good fit. sets like Sean/Sachiko and Radu/Mattin would have been better at C:U, and Dilloway/Marhaug and Jazkamer would have been better at the Hook. but I thought Tonic worked well as a middle ground, the sound system was better than I expected, and the downstairs music leaking upstairs wasn't an issue, which I'd been petrified about for months. so that's my perspective.
but for this year, for the range of aesthetics we presented, I thought Tonic was a good fit. sets like Sean/Sachiko and Radu/Mattin would have been better at C:U, and Dilloway/Marhaug and Jazkamer would have been better at the Hook. but I thought Tonic worked well as a middle ground, the sound system was better than I expected, and the downstairs music leaking upstairs wasn't an issue, which I'd been petrified about for months. so that's my perspective.
yeah, it's true. a nice hall or something would have been great, but it's tough. or even a black box like last year but bigger. one annoying thing was the subwoofer or no loud fan noise choice performers had to make. . come on, tonic. but the bar wasn't too bad from where i was. more seating would have been awesome, but i don't fear the floor, either. . .jon abbey wrote: but for this year, for the range of aesthetics we presented, I thought Tonic was a good fit. sets like Sean/Sachiko and Radu/Mattin would have been better at C:U, and Dilloway/Marhaug and Jazkamer would have been better at the Hook. but I thought Tonic worked well as a middle ground, the sound system was better than I expected, and the downstairs music leaking upstairs wasn't an issue, which I'd been petrified about for months. so that's my perspective.
-j.
I'm in the Hong Kong airport waiting to get home to Seoul.
Just writing quick-like to thank everyone, Jon, Chris, Tim, the bands, the nice Tonic people, and the pretty big audience.
Super stoked to meet the IHM/SLSKers in person, David K., Steven, Quammy, Grisha, Robert, Letch et al (man, lotsa youse guys).
EASILY the best set of the fest was the Los Glissandinos set. Kai is ill. I was so into his tones, but also the fact that he doesn't try to hide the physical playing with circular breathing or quiet inhalations. His in-breaths were right on mic, and reminded me that that's okay.
I was also blown away by Meehan and Jerman, neither of whom I'd heard before (well, I'd heard a coule of Jeph's field recordings). Those guys are treasures, great great musicians and people.
I will write again because I have some thoughts about the Sachiko/English set, I think.
Great festival everyone. Thanks for being nice to me & whatnot hey hey.
Just writing quick-like to thank everyone, Jon, Chris, Tim, the bands, the nice Tonic people, and the pretty big audience.
Super stoked to meet the IHM/SLSKers in person, David K., Steven, Quammy, Grisha, Robert, Letch et al (man, lotsa youse guys).
EASILY the best set of the fest was the Los Glissandinos set. Kai is ill. I was so into his tones, but also the fact that he doesn't try to hide the physical playing with circular breathing or quiet inhalations. His in-breaths were right on mic, and reminded me that that's okay.
I was also blown away by Meehan and Jerman, neither of whom I'd heard before (well, I'd heard a coule of Jeph's field recordings). Those guys are treasures, great great musicians and people.
I will write again because I have some thoughts about the Sachiko/English set, I think.
Great festival everyone. Thanks for being nice to me & whatnot hey hey.
You, of all people, should understand
i really enjoyed the ambient sounds, especially the sounds coming from outside the venue. i live 30 miles outside of atlanta in an extremely quiet environment, so hearing this music in the big city was totally new and disorienting for me! i admit that the occasional cell-phone annoyed me, especially because jon asked people to turn them off so many times, but the rest of the inside sounds worked well with most of the sets. considering the number of people in the audience, i'm impressed that the venue was as quiet as it was. my only real issue with the venue was the lack of seating.
i'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this. i spoke with bonnie and she said that she "sided with sachiko," which i thought was a mistake because it seemed that sachiko had no idea where she was going. one thing that really shocked me is that bonnie described improvisation as war. certainly it can be sometimes, but the first english set was exactly the opposite. i'm not sure why the addition of sachiko was so divisive, but it made for some of the most intense moments of the entire festival. well done.Faster wrote:I will write again because I have some thoughts about the Sachiko/English set, I think.
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user_609
Being that ErstQuake 3 was my first live 'eai' experience (the only exception maybe being the Greg Davis/KFW/Ben Vida show we had quite a while ago now--your 2 cents on that Greg?) I have to say I had a really great time. Seeing everyone making music in person helped me develop a whole new understanding of the musicians' techniques--one example being Sean Meehan, whom I had seen photos of, but always wondered just what he was doing with those dowels.
As mentioned in previous posts, the issue of seating definitely made a huge difference in the perception of the music. I was lucky enough to have a seat for most of the sets, but being forced to stand during Malfatti/Mattin made it a lot less enjoyable (though upon further reflection, their set was pretty great).
The biggest downfall of a lot of the sets was the ending. Some were great, but some seemed to just drag on too long, going nowhere. However, I suppose that is to be somewhat expected in improvised music, and fortunately it did not totally ruin what were otherwise great sets.
It's probably not necessary to give a set-by-set runthrough, as many have already done so, and I concur with many of the opinions already presented. So, in conclusion, it was nice to meet some of you even if it was simply making brief acquaintance, and I have an even greater appreciation too for what Jon and Chris and everyone else involved are doing. I hope to attend again next year.
Will
As mentioned in previous posts, the issue of seating definitely made a huge difference in the perception of the music. I was lucky enough to have a seat for most of the sets, but being forced to stand during Malfatti/Mattin made it a lot less enjoyable (though upon further reflection, their set was pretty great).
The biggest downfall of a lot of the sets was the ending. Some were great, but some seemed to just drag on too long, going nowhere. However, I suppose that is to be somewhat expected in improvised music, and fortunately it did not totally ruin what were otherwise great sets.
It's probably not necessary to give a set-by-set runthrough, as many have already done so, and I concur with many of the opinions already presented. So, in conclusion, it was nice to meet some of you even if it was simply making brief acquaintance, and I have an even greater appreciation too for what Jon and Chris and everyone else involved are doing. I hope to attend again next year.
Will
that show in tallahassee that you are referring to, it was EAI in that we used electronics (computers & effects) and acoustic instruments (guitars, percussion, vocals, etc) and it was largely improvised. but what we were doing was a bit different stylistically than the typical EAI stuff which comes more from european improv traditions and the live electronic music of cage / tudor / mumma / etc.
the "A" in EAI was kinda lacking at this erstquake festival. i was really surprised. lots and lots of electronics. of all the people that shouldve been performing on a laptop, it shouldve been me, but i didnt want to use it at all.
i guess this all goes to show why i think EAI or any other genre term is quite silly and useless.
the "A" in EAI was kinda lacking at this erstquake festival. i was really surprised. lots and lots of electronics. of all the people that shouldve been performing on a laptop, it shouldve been me, but i didnt want to use it at all.
i guess this all goes to show why i think EAI or any other genre term is quite silly and useless.
willc11 wrote: (the only exception maybe being the Greg Davis/KFW/Ben Vida show we had quite a while ago now--your 2 cents on that Greg?)
yeah, the same thing ocurred to me. and frankly, i was kinda missing that tension that can come from acoustic elements mixing with electronics. i suppose you can count stangl's guitars. then kai. . . meehan, you and jeph, some of tim barnes. . was that it? oh, ami counts, too. . .gtd wrote:
the "A" in EAI was kinda lacking at this erstquake festival. i was really surprised. lots and lots of electronics. of all the people that shouldve been performing on a laptop, it shouldve been me, but i didnt want to use it at all.
also, i must concur on the endings. what happened? that "hey, are you done? i should look down and pretend i might play again" vibe is OLD. i was surprised how many sets had this problem, especially given obvious time constraints. hey dudes, *we* all know you're done.
wish i could remember specific sets, but i am honestly drawing a blank.
-j.