Futbol '22-'23

[surfer]

I'm not on the Conte Out brigade yet, but the decision may not be Spurs, I think he will probably be gone by his own decision this summer. For right now, I'll give him a pass with Richarlison, Kulusevski, Bentancur unavailable. Its an appearance of "nobody knows what to do" or a lack of ideas going forward because, as has been pointed out many times, all the creativity in this formation has to come from the wingbacks. And we do not have good wingbacks. We were better marginally yesterday because a) Kane had his shooting boots on and b) Perisic and Doherty are our best attacking wingbacks, and when they get far up the pitch, there is more happening in those wide areas and the service is better. But yes, generally speaking, this is a terrible passing team. We cannot pass our way out of a paper bag. Son got the assist on the last goal by Doherty, but if you watch, he passes it directly into the feet of the defender, and it ricochets directly into Doherty's path. Son's goal is also a deflection that otherwise probably would have been saved. Son is just out of sorts, not sure if its the mask that is bothering him.

Spurs main problem is not Conte, not sure their results would be much better under Tuchel or anyone else they could get. Its just that teams around them are loaded and improving at a much more rapid pace. Newcastle, United, Arsenal, of course City as along as Pep is around, are all on the long-term upswing. Only Chelsea is treading water, and possibly Liverpool, although they are a enigma right now under Klopp. Better energy and selective pressing at the start of games as you have pointed out Lutz would be welcome, but I also think a change of formation to something like a 4-2-3-1 out of possession, and 3-4-3 in possession. Two CBs and a defensive midfielder (Hojbjerg probably) that drops into the back line to form a back three when we have the ball. Kane playing behind Richarlison as a floating 10.

Out of possession:
Doherty - Dier - Romero - Perisic
Bentancur - Hojbjerg
Kulusevski - Kane - Son
Richarlison

In possession:
Dier - Hojbjerg - Romero
Doherty - Kane - Bentancur - Perisic
Kulusevski - Richarlison - Son

Let Kane be a 10 if he wants to be a 10. I think this puts everyone into positions where they are most comfortable. The only question is are the two CBs too exposed with only Hojbjerg as a holding mid. This is basically what Poch used to do: Alderweireld and Vertoghen as the two CBs, with Dier a defensive mid dropping into the back three when in possession.

[Wombatz]

let us know when you change your mind yes, conte is not responsible for lloris' own goals and you're better on tactics than me, but what we've strongly felt for some time (and what the guardian also writes about today) is that it's no help having a manager who always maybe wants to leave. (that's how the real downward slope for poch started, when he started threatening with the door.)

so strange that for months now the players always need the half-time whistle before they notice it's actually match day ...

such a fun offside goal against pep! and is haaland maybe the problem?

[surfer]

let us know when you change your mind yes, conte is not responsible for lloris' own goals and you're better on tactics than me, but what we've strongly felt for some time (and what the guardian also writes about today) is that it's no help having a manager who always maybe wants to leave. (that's how the real downward slope for poch started, when he started threatening with the door.)

Haha, hey Lutz, if you want to go back farther It was I who said way back, when he was starting at Inter iirc, that I wasnt impressed with Conte as tactician, I thought he was more of a yeller. And you made fun of me for that. !

You're right, not knowing whether he's staying past this summer is a huge problem, might be the biggest underlying off-pitch issue. Because if he's staying, and he's fully committed to the 3-4-3, we need to buy much much better wingbacks. Lloris had a shocker yesterday, but I think Sessegnon was just as bad. He cannot play this system. Royal cannot play this system. Perisic can but he's getting too old to play more than once a week, and Doherty can too, but I dont think Conte fully trusts him. How about Spence?!?! For sakes can we finally give him a run of games? If he's not staying then we're probably not committing to a 3 back line and just need to hold off. I think that's probably why we're not linked to anyone in the January transfer window.

Yesterday was a horror show, just totally outplayed except for a short 15 min stretch when Arsenal was happy to let us have the ball and absorb pressure. There is a kernel of truth to the notion that if you swapped GKs yesterday, you'd have swapped the score, but its no more than a kernel, because they're a team playing with confidence, joy, and belief, none of which we have. And maybe that's the biggest off-pitch issue come to think of it.

[surfer]

quoted coz i'm evil:

Conte doesnt seem to have a clue, he's such a poor manager imo. Inter would do well to get rid of him sooner rather than later.

Was I right before I was wrong before I was right? Or was I wrong beforeI was right before I was wrong? Either way, if I keep flip flopping eventually I will been seen as the analytical genius that I am.

[surfer]

Followed by an epic collapse at City. It wasnt that long ago we were all in agreement the Spurs defense were much improved and quite solid. But I read somewhere that they have conceded the most goals in the league since Oct? The whole back line seems out of sorts now. Top 4 seems out of reach, and even Europe seems a stretch for next year. You have to wonder if they lose today, and then get demolished again against City if Conte will last until the end of the year. I honestly dont know where they go from here. Tuchel seems more of the same to me, I'm not sure he gets anything more out of this squad than Conte. Their recruitment has been so haphazard, and there are so many positions to improve. GK, wingbacks, at least one more CB, creative mid. sell Son? Kane is open to signing a new contract, yay? Maybe we need to move on from all of the old guard. And I didnt even mention the fact that Paratici now has a financial fraud allegation hanging over his head. So maybe he goes with Conte.

[Wombatz]

hey, they didn't lose! and conte might stay for the rest of the season. there was this strange article in the guardian that said he should go home to italy before all his friends there die, which read like he dropped some hints to the journalists, so he'll be gone after the season. we disagree tüchel would be more of the same. he's a geek and will drill everybody as part of a plan and will dare to seat sonny on the bench where he belongs (korean revenues be darned) and many of the players will play better simply because there's fewer individual decisions they can be afraid of ... on the other hand, could he develop the team into something sustainably top 3, could he get along with levy? probably no, but he'd fail differently and we want to see it (though i'm afraid the slight resurrection of poch will happen before we get to that)

[surfer]

Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment overall. Conte has certainly been affected by the deaths of close friends, I dont think anyone is doubting that. It has been pointed out that this is more or less the same defensive lineup in same system, same coaching, and yet the defense / goals conceded have rapidly deteriorated since last year when they were one of the better defensive units in the PL. There are only a few possible explanations for this: a) the death of Ventrone and others have affected the whole squad b) certain players have rapidly been exposed as not good enough or have passed their peak (Dier and Lloris particularly have aged) c) Conte's uncertain commitment to the project and contract expiration has affected the players commitment to his vision d) possibly Romero is more important than realized. Not sure what other explanations there could be. Probably mostly (a) and (c), with a little bit of (b). City on the weekend is another litmus test.

Tough to read if the inactivity in the transfer market is indicative of Conte's contract status. Lots of players he doesnt favor going out on loan. Another wingback coming in. Seems to be in line with his vision.

I would prefer to keep Conte into next year rather than give Tuchel Conte's players and start over. That being said, I have no idea where this project is going except that I doubt it will end with everyone satisfied.

[surfer]

I was watching Match of the Day, and they pointed out that the goal against City, and much of Spurs success in keeping City from generating many high quality chances came from Dier being allowed to move forward and be more aggressive with snuffing out chances in the midfield, allowing Hojbjerg to move even farther forward and picking Rico Lewis' pocket for the assist on the Kane goal. Which begs the obvious question of how good Spurs could be if they were more proactive in that way. Its not about pressing, just being more active in moving one of their CBs into midfield when needed. It is a double edged sword because City clearly were not going to play it long to Haaland, even though it was quite obvious he had ample space to run into. I still think some variation of a 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1 is the way to go because it allows Royal to do what he is demonstrating he is really good at, which is defending. Anyway, good match, best result for Spurs this year. City at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium 0W, 0D, 5L 0F 7A.

I hold out no hope that PL will do anything other than slap City on the wrist for accounting irregularities. I also dont understand how Chelsea can continue to operate on the right side of FFP with their transfer expenditures. Also, Lutz do you agree with me that Klopp is done at Liverpool after this year (#7)? seems like its the same wherever he goes. Roger what do you think?

[Wombatz]

so now we have the solution: keep conte as manager but keep him out of the dugout, he's just cramping up everybody's styles.

yeah nothing will happen to city, it's a joke. but it's even funnier if they fail on the field. now everybody's saying haaland is the problem to what extent is city's comparatively bad run due to the fact they now get whistled for their early fouls etc.? they are so bad at the dark arts, petulant rather that street-wise ... ok grealish gets a few extra free-kicks by jumping into opponents but it doesn't actually help their flow (not to speak of their karma).

is it coincidence that so many of the super league teams are somewhat struggling? or is there an automatic flaw in the system now that any player they become interested in goes into the billions no matter if they're really elite performers or if they can easily be replaced by some random guy from the lower french leagues? does it get in the way of building/maintaining a team? it will be super interesting to see how chelsea fare (who funnily fired a coach more experienced at keeping a surplus of pampered players engaged). and yes klopp acts like he's finished ... in terms of content he probably could manage a hard rebuild, but i don't think he's psychologically equipped for that, thriving on sentiment and all that (partly it's a shtick, of course, but there's no escaping the shtick). nagelsmann at bayern will also be interesting ... as i'd reported, it had always been clear to any rats follower that he wasn't a nice person, but the unprovoked levels of toxicity he showed at his farewell press conference were truly pep-worthy ... now he's warring manuel neuer (again, unnecessarily, with sommer as an available stopgap he could simply let the goalies battle it out on form if and when neuer returns) while his team have invited everyone back into a proper race for the title.

[roger.haddad.]

Can't wait to be crowned 2013-14 Champions!

Yeah, I could see him dipping or getting fired by seasons end. Seems like there's just nothing there with the whole team this season. Maybe the trauma of blowing it when it counted last season was too much for the lads. Then the injury issues and shitty signings didn't help. The margin for error is getting smaller and smaller as the PL continues to mutate into nothing more than the plaything of the global elite. The whole thing is honestly becoming hard for me to watch. I say all this, and yet I always think to myself "It's a long season," so I keep waiting for a decent run of form to lift their spirits, but the "long season" continues to dwindle away and more losses accrue.

It's also interesting to me that in the modern game the first sign of stagnation leads to calls of managers being thrown out or quitting. Like the prospect of coming back from a bad season isn't even a thing. Especially when you see stats of manager records against other ones where they may not even perform as well as the outgoing manager but the sentiment is different since it's not the last guy.

I'm rambling at this point.

Tl;dr
- Liverpool for 2013-14 PL Champions
- Klopp probably out next season, wouldn't be mad if he stays or goes

[Wombatz]

hey we got tickets for the city game

[Wombatz]

conte back at the sidelines (looking like he still belongs in bed) so we get a truly abject performance again. if he has to try out porro instead of emerson after the latter's best game of the season, why can't he at least switch back at half time when it's clear it's not working. is this an educational thing like you make the kids suffer thru the full embarrassment of their bad choices in the expectation they will do what they're told next time?

[surfer]

conte back at the sidelines (looking like he still belongs in bed) so we get a truly abject performance again. if he has to try out porro instead of emerson after the latter's best game of the season, why can't he at least switch back at half time when it's clear it's not working. is this an educational thing like you make the kids suffer thru the full embarrassment of their bad choices in the expectation they will do what they're told next time?

In American parenting we call that "natural consequences". Yeah, Conte's choices just dont seem to be working, at least not developing any consistency, unless its happenstance. I just sit there pondering where he is leading them? A lot of the stuff that happened on Sat (esp the Iheanacho 1v1 goal against Dier) was the result of Romero being out. He has become a key player and shields the stodgy backline from having to be too mobile. The defensive fragility is one thing, and could be solved by going to a back 4 imo, but the lack of chance creation is also a huge issue. Even in the Milan game today, until Richarlison came in, Spurs were just not creating a lot, heaps of hopeful crosses, through balls intercepted or shielded, Kane isolated. Richarlison is better equipped to lead the line, proactive with pressing, aerial threat, energetic hold up play. His link up play isnt the greatest but surrounded by Kane, Kulusevski, Son, I think it could work. They need to figure out a way to get him on the pitch for more minutes, even if it means benching Son. Sarr looked bright, energetic, purposeful, and positive. Skinny but strong. Skipp was fine too. That double pivot could work for the time being. Yes Porro had a depressing debut, not the immediate injection of quality I was hoping for.

1-0 is not a bad result in balance though

[surfer]

Richarlinson
Son-Kane-Kulusevski
Sarr-Romero
Perisic-Lenglet-Dier-Royal

60' Danjuma on for Son
Hojbjerg on for Sarr
Davies on for Persisic

[surfer]

I think there's evidence that Rats will be able to "do one" to Pep, Maybe City are keeping their powder dry for CL, but I just think they look a bit stale this year. We will see but enjoy the match!

I just finished watched Madrid Liverpool, and this 3-4-3 that Liverpool are undoubtedly better and more experienced with and have won quite a bit utilizing, it is just so fragile and when it goes, it goes horribly wrong. I feel like Ive watched variations of this at Spurs all season: Modric waltzing through an unmarked midfield like a man taking the measure of his own rose garden. But when you employ a two man central midfield, its often that you are overrun and overextended. TAA and AR are excellent wingbacks in the modern sense, they get forward, excellent service, score, but are suspect in the thing they sometimes have to grudgingly do: defend. The wingbacks are so key to this system, its impossible to find that unicorn complete package that can do it all.

Madrid have for years offered the counterargument to the idea that football is a team sport. They are a collection of highly experienced, supremely confident individuals, who win because of individual 1:1 battles and moments of individual brilliance. Yes they can be undone by well-functioning units of collective effort, but there is no midfield gameplan to stop Modric from seeing 10 seconds into the future.

Spurs have woken up to find themselves, against all markers of style or form, in fourth place. Emerson Royal has completed what can only be described as a "Moussa Sissoko like" resurrection from club laughing stock and meme generator, to weekly Man of the Match. It only cost $45million to shake some sense into him. But again, the first goal on Sunday (Hojbjerg to Davis to Royal) underlines the extreme precariousness of this system, because if you are betting on Hojbjerg consistently seeing and executing that pass, Davies making that run, and Royal finishing with the coolness of Marcus Rashford, then you are pinning your top 4 hopes on some unlikely events happening consistently.

The Chelsea match is incredibly fascinating. Never thought I would think this, but I feel bad for Potter at Chelsea and he may have reached a point of no return. Under no circumstance should they ever be losing at the Bridge to the worst team in the league. James Ward-Prowse is the best dead ball sniper I have ever seen, the amount of top spin he generates is hard to believe.

[roger.haddad.]

So, missed the Reds/Madrid game cause I had work but wow, not sorry I missed it lol. Watched the highlights and looks like farcical goalkeeping/bad luck on both sides.

Ultimately though, TAA and Gomez just aren't it man, Gomez has been terrible since day 1 and Trent I'm convinced bets on the opposing teams every game that counts. So many goals come from that shitty right side that it's almost comical looking at Klopp make his faces like he's surprised when it happens lol.

This Liverpool team started winning games a few years back when they stopped opponents. Looks like they're regressing to the Brendo era of outscoring people with a terrible back line but the problem is you have to actually outscore the other team for that to work.

Napoli is gonna quietly make a run, I'm rooting for them, feel like they don't get enough respect tbh.

[roger.haddad.]

And don't feel bad for Potter, he took a job that was out of his depth and when he gets fired he'll get a huge payday and history will blame it on the instability of upper management. He'll be fine.

[Wombatz]

real have the individual talent but also that much observed but undeniable collective swag even when they play seemingly hopeless stuff. really fun game though a bit more drama at the end would have been nice. kloppo is done for now, he should leave and then return in five years after three other coaches and then it might work again.

i'm not getting my hopes high. rats are rather an easy opponent for city as they can't dig in, can't be efficient (despite a short appearance in the last game, nkunku is not yet match fit), and can't handle the shithousery. so they'd have to actually play better than city. so city will have to have another extreme off day. hm.

[surfer]

Bad giveaway from Schlager, cant do that in that area. Rats need to get their foot on the ball

[surfer]

"Pep" Gvardiol! what a second half, they can win this