Futbol '22-'23

[surfer]

So Spursy for Rats, so passive in the first half, trying not to concede, concede anyway, show more courage and press higher up in the second and could have won it. Bit of a missed opportunity, although looking at that call for handball on the last kick of the match, looks like a clear penalty at first glance. Advantage City but Rats could still win it on the return.

[Wombatz]

yeah obviously chickenshit first half, totally unnecessary as city had no ideas, just mildly smotheringly waited for a mistake, which duly arrived (two others could have led to the same). what the hell was rose's plan, this looked wrong from the first second, just asking no questions at all. rats were actually quite good at playing out the back but didn't take the same risks and never showed the same passing skills in the opposite half. there were so many open spaces behind the city backline and werner waved his hand off and you might suspect he would usually be offside anyway, but not a single try. then as soon as rats opened up in the second half and allowed for some chaos it became totally clear city didn't like that at all, started unnecessarily clearing balls while their shape widened and positions started to look less controlled etc. they definitely looked beatable. shithousery played no role, rats were so well behaved grealish had to throw himself down for no reason at all, just to get the attention. no aura emanating from haaland ... well, we sat pretty high up so his grimaces were lost on us, but he had no predator's gait and mainly sloppy touches and the chance he put wide looked like he just couldn't be bothered. funnily pep did his best dances in the first half trying to inspire some creativity, in the second he just slouched.

[Wombatz]

p.s.the problem with rats for years now has been that they want to leave behind the rangnick-imprinted adventure football, they want to be grown-ups, play possession-based, be a well-oiled machine, eat with a knife and fork etc. now they're not doing worse than before, but they can't go the next step toward being a real contender as long as they are preoccupied with doing things correctly. (plus of course the honorable also-ran problem of having to replace two top players every season.) so they started as if competing for the honorary medal for having done quite respectably.

i guess chances haven't worsened if city continue their slow burn crisis. then again one always expects them to click any moment now.

[surfer]

I wanted to wait after the Chelsea win until after the FA Cup match because I had a feeling. Chelsea are, in their current incarnation, the worst team in the PL, by the eye test, as well as almost any metric you pull up: xG, chances created, goals, etc. They have 6 goals since November. Their chance creation is abysmal. So while Spurs looked eerily comfortable against Chelsea, its down to the commitment and cohesion of their opponent. and that Spurs had their first choice XI out

By contrast, Sheffield were not bright, but solid, organized, and determined. And at home. Spurs rotated a bit but the primary problem was the lack of chance creation. Without Kane, Kulusevski, or quality wingbacks they just dont create anything. Without Kane they arent scoring, and without Romero, they arent defending. The goal was a nice individual mazy mini-run, but Sanchez was bypassed way too easy, and Forster again beaten near post. Spurs will never win a trophy if their sole focus and priority is qualifying for the CL and finishing high in the league. They are going to have to prioritize the domestic cups one day or risk sentencing themselves to eternal purgatory, rolling that boulder up the hill every year to no end.

[roger.haddad.]

So idk wtf I just saw from Liverpool and United but I enjoyed it. Can't wait for them to lose to the next team in the bottom half of the table they play to balance it out.

[surfer]

I hope you enjoyed it Roger, what a weekend of horrible results for Spurs fans. What I enjoyed most about yesterday's 7-0 was when the pitch invader ran the length pitch to celebrate with his heroes, only to lose his footing upon arrival at the scrum and inadvertently commit a two footed slide tackle on Andy Robertson, injuring him and causing him to limp around for the rest of the match. Reds super fan has since been arrested and banned for life from Anfield.

[surfer]

Seems pointless to discuss let alone dissect yesterdays zombie performance. I'm interested in hearing from Lutz and Roger (put yourself in Spurs fans shoes) who you think is the best choice as next Spurs manager. I know who you want Lutz, but let me know who your second choice is. Also interested in hearing about your thoughts on Glasner (who, to be fair, hasnt really been linked with the job)

Poch
Tuchel
Enrique
De Zerbi
Frank
Schmidt
Glasner
Silva

Of this list, I do not want Poch or Silva, for different reasons. I dont know enough about Schmidt and Glasner to have an opinion. Frank and De Zerbi, I'd probably have a slight preference for Frank because of a longer track record, De Zerbi's record at Shakhtar and Sassuolo are a bit mixed and he stepped into a clear vision and structure at Brighton. I like Tuchel, I worry about the vibe he brings and his personality and penchant for rubbing some players the wrong way (Richarlison ahem). He seems to genuinely be a Spurs fan and have affection for the club. That leaves Enrique who is probably, hesitantly my first choice because he's at least possession based, proactive, and would develop a functional midfield. He's a proven experienced project manager who can develop youth. I do worry that our forwards would reach a new level of isolation and futility under him.

[Wombatz]

i want no second choice! that change of vibe would be a good thing, he's the only one where i'd actually still expect something to happen in the short run ... both the other german coaches might be an ok fit tactics-wise, favoring styles that focus on transitions etc. i remember schmidt as a pretty grating personality from his time at leverkusen, though. he might have grown, but used to demand a lot of energy while being easily aggrieved all the time, that's a difficult mix especially with difficult players or those that are above him in the club hierarchy. glasner would be more interesting, he can form and improve a team, favors an attractive style. of course it would mean playing for fourth from the start at best, and with his slim heritage he'd have zero credit in the bank, but i wouldn't mind him. enrique has an air about him, few look as good standing at the sidelines so he's ok also. the rest i don't want or should stay where they are because karma.

[surfer]

My fear with Tuchel is that, whereas Poch would walk in with some banked goodwill that would allow time for the project to take form, Tuchel comes in, through no fault of his own, with negative equity in the bank. That's my own read based on the handful of Spurs fans I know in real life, and dozens on social media, message boards, etc. Most of it is his affiliation with Chelsea, some of it is the perception (accurate or not) that he is another short term "win now" manager without the patience for a rebuild using players bought by other managers. Some of it is maybe HandshakeGate. In terms of PR, and the vibe it creates from the outset, its a huge risk. If Tuchel didnt immediately show some progress I think the crowds would turn on him and Levy quickly, and as we saw last night it can get ugly. Perhaps he could attack this head on by "kissing the chicken badge" and recording a rap song with the surviving member of Chas and Dave. If this were during COVID in empty stadia perhaps a different set of calculations. You're going to get more buy in from fans (although perhaps not players) if you go with someone who is more of a blank slate.

We've said this before but this is a real moment for Levy and the club, if he gets this very wrong, there is a version of this story where Spurs slide down the Everton slope. I dont think it will happen because their financial stability and location in London insulates them a bit, but Liverpool and Arsenal spent years in the wilderness outside the Top 4, and Spurs dont have quite the financial might of Liverpool to spend their way back into it, especially with Newcastle now a real force for the forseeable future.

The other factor in this is that Spurs cannot (it has been shown) unload easily players the new manager doesnt fancy. The market for them on the continent doesnt exist, and therefore you'd have to take a huge loss or pay them to play elsewhere. Whoever the new manager is must know that Levy and the Board will back them and their targets to an extent, but they are going to have to shift through the Spences, Udogie, Lo Celsos, and even Rodons of the Spurs Kingdom and find some useful parts, spare or otherwise. I'm not sure who the right manager is for that aspect of the task, I must admit.

[Wombatz]

My fear with Tuchel is that, whereas Poch would walk in with some banked goodwill that would allow time for the project to take form, Tuchel comes in, through no fault of his own, with negative equity in the bank.

i absolutely agree and he might be a total disaster. i'd still want them to try. now it's like over the years most of the players have become insecure and unable to make the necessary decisions on the pitch, they've become tactically confused, and the occasional game where they run around some and click to an extent shows they are usually performing even beneath the sum of their questionable parts. so either you build a new team with patience and shrewd buying, or you get somebody to teach the players where to move and what to do. and this:

they are going to have to shift through the Spences, Udogie, Lo Celsos, and even Rodons of the Spurs Kingdom and find some useful parts, spare or otherwise

is tüchel's absolute core competency. while i think he's less difficult than often said (just ask chelsea fans), he certainly doesn't fit character-wise. but he'd be 110% into the project no matter what players or means (unlike the current coach and unlike poch or enrique would be) not because he was a spurs fan as a kid but because he is that way. actually get him in tomorrow and give him the rest of the season and if nothing happens then it's clear you sell kane and build from scratch with a proper humble craftsman of a coach stolen from some overperforming minions.

[Wombatz]

can't muster up any optimism, i'm afraid. with nkunku (and olmo) still sidelined, rats would have to offer an inspired performance, and they never manage to do that and stick to the plan at the same time. so there'll be a few mistakes too many and city won't even have to convince. (wouldn't mind this being a counterjinx of course.)

[Wombatz]

i really hate railing against the refs but this is incredible

(of course rats are useless as expected, but ridic penalty, foul by haaland before the second goal, and kamikaze foul by ederson leading to a free kick for city instead of a (possibly red? probably not) card ... as if city needed this)

[surfer]

Didnt watch, sorry Lutz! Tuned into Porto Inter which was scrappy fun, although Porto huffed and puffed they couldnt blow the italian wall down. Goal line clearance, ball hitting post, and another off the crossbar, all in extra time.

[Wombatz]

perfect game for pep: being the much better team yet winning it kind of cheatingly (not that he's responsible for the ref's decision). grealish was still taking blatant dives at 3:0 up, city are really comically evil.

i'm too lazy to search for what i said about rose going to leipzig (yeah okay meh i think it was), but this is about what was to be expected. (and to think they, too, could have gome for tüchel ... he wouldn't have tried playing this on eye level to sorry results, he'd have tried to win this (and probably failed, but really rats need to reinject some smarts and since nobody likes them anyway why go for a likeable coach in rose). werner still knew how to do this, standing at the city backline with acres of space ahead of him and waving, but no attempt to get the ball there for him to mistime the run.)

[roger.haddad.]

I'm afraid I'm not privy to all the manager options you listed but I do find the Spurs issue interesting. I don't see how Tuchel could be a bad appointment but also don't know that he'd fit the job.

I say that, but maybe they need someone that doesn't "fit" since what they do hasn't gotten them anywhere. I say that knowing they went to the CL final in recent years yes.

Didn't watch the City/Leipzig game but can't wait to read about City's match fixing scandal/ref "consulting fee" payments in the next few years.

I will gladly accept all the retroactive PL titles the FA will give Liverpool lol.

[Wombatz]

wow, the cl draw went exactly as requested!

[Wombatz]

incredible press conference, there's no way conte can stay another day after that?

[roger.haddad.]

That's the Conte I know and love.

[surfer]

incredible press conference, there's no way conte can stay another day after that?

Maybe Levy will sack him, but maybe he will make Conte lie for a while in the bed he made for himself. It would be a self-sabotaging "cut off the nose to spite his face" move which would signal a white flag in the race for 4th, but there's no imminent move as of today. I'm not sure Mason or anyone they bring in would be able to get better more consistent results at this point in the season.

The saddest image I have in my mind is a convalescing Salman Rushdie weeping in his one non-bandaged eye while in another part of London the massive ego named Piers Stefan Pughe-Morgan smugly rubs his fat hands and cackles in glee.

[surfer]

As with an organization, when things go wrong its rarely just one thing or one person. ENIC and Levy havent always invested in the squad at the critical moments. They havent always had a philosophy of how this club will play driving managerial appointments (the Tottenham DNA blah blah blah). The recruitment strategy and analytics are all over the map (why recruit players the manager wont play? I realize there has to be a longer-term vision with a short-term coach, but they have rarely seemed in sync). Some players do seem to lack a consistent effort, or they are just really tired from a long season and lack of rotation. There are significant holes in the squad that havent been addressed (CB). Injuries have taken a toll and thinned the squad. And I dont think 3-4-3 is the system best suited to getting the most out of these players. I also think there are now a lot of really well run clubs in the PL and even those at the bottom have a degree of quality not seen in years past. Also football matches are pretty fluky sometimes and that penalty against Sarr probably wasnt a penalty.

Conte rightly identified a few of these things, but not all of them. And the way he did it was the opposite of "constructive", but in any case, multiple reports have him gone this week.