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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:06 pm
by surfer
I'm not on the Conte Out brigade yet, but the decision may not be Spurs, I think he will probably be gone by his own decision this summer. For right now, I'll give him a pass with Richarlison, Kulusevski, Bentancur unavailable. Its an appearance of "nobody knows what to do" or a lack of ideas going forward because, as has been pointed out many times, all the creativity in this formation has to come from the wingbacks. And we do not have good wingbacks. We were better marginally yesterday because a) Kane had his shooting boots on and b) Perisic and Doherty are our best attacking wingbacks, and when they get far up the pitch, there is more happening in those wide areas and the service is better. But yes, generally speaking, this is a terrible passing team. We cannot pass our way out of a paper bag. Son got the assist on the last goal by Doherty, but if you watch, he passes it directly into the feet of the defender, and it ricochets directly into Doherty's path. Son's goal is also a deflection that otherwise probably would have been saved. Son is just out of sorts, not sure if its the mask that is bothering him.

Spurs main problem is not Conte, not sure their results would be much better under Tuchel or anyone else they could get. Its just that teams around them are loaded and improving at a much more rapid pace. Newcastle, United, Arsenal, of course City as along as Pep is around, are all on the long-term upswing. Only Chelsea is treading water, and possibly Liverpool, although they are a enigma right now under Klopp. Better energy and selective pressing at the start of games as you have pointed out Lutz would be welcome, but I also think a change of formation to something like a 4-2-3-1 out of possession, and 3-4-3 in possession. Two CBs and a defensive midfielder (Hojbjerg probably) that drops into the back line to form a back three when we have the ball. Kane playing behind Richarlison as a floating 10.

Out of possession:
Doherty - Dier - Romero - Perisic
Bentancur - Hojbjerg
Kulusevski - Kane - Son
Richarlison

In possession:
Dier - Hojbjerg - Romero
Doherty - Kane - Bentancur - Perisic
Kulusevski - Richarlison - Son

Let Kane be a 10 if he wants to be a 10. I think this puts everyone into positions where they are most comfortable. The only question is are the two CBs too exposed with only Hojbjerg as a holding mid. This is basically what Poch used to do: Alderweireld and Vertoghen as the two CBs, with Dier a defensive mid dropping into the back three when in possession.

Re: Futbol '22-'23

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:18 pm
by Wombatz
let us know when you change your mind :-) yes, conte is not responsible for lloris' own goals and you're better on tactics than me, but what we've strongly felt for some time (and what the guardian also writes about today) is that it's no help having a manager who always maybe wants to leave. (that's how the real downward slope for poch started, when he started threatening with the door.)

so strange that for months now the players always need the half-time whistle before they notice it's actually match day ...

such a fun offside goal against pep! and is haaland maybe the problem?

Re: Futbol '22-'23

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:07 pm
by surfer
Wombatz wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:18 pm
let us know when you change your mind :-) yes, conte is not responsible for lloris' own goals and you're better on tactics than me, but what we've strongly felt for some time (and what the guardian also writes about today) is that it's no help having a manager who always maybe wants to leave. (that's how the real downward slope for poch started, when he started threatening with the door.)
Haha, hey Lutz, if you want to go back farther It was I who said way back, when he was starting at Inter iirc, that I wasnt impressed with Conte as tactician, I thought he was more of a yeller. And you made fun of me for that. :D ! :D

You're right, not knowing whether he's staying past this summer is a huge problem, might be the biggest underlying off-pitch issue. Because if he's staying, and he's fully committed to the 3-4-3, we need to buy much much better wingbacks. Lloris had a shocker yesterday, but I think Sessegnon was just as bad. He cannot play this system. Royal cannot play this system. Perisic can but he's getting too old to play more than once a week, and Doherty can too, but I dont think Conte fully trusts him. How about Spence?!?! For sakes can we finally give him a run of games? If he's not staying then we're probably not committing to a 3 back line and just need to hold off. I think that's probably why we're not linked to anyone in the January transfer window.

Yesterday was a horror show, just totally outplayed except for a short 15 min stretch when Arsenal was happy to let us have the ball and absorb pressure. There is a kernel of truth to the notion that if you swapped GKs yesterday, you'd have swapped the score, but its no more than a kernel, because they're a team playing with confidence, joy, and belief, none of which we have. And maybe that's the biggest off-pitch issue come to think of it.

Re: Futbol '22-'23

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:51 pm
by surfer
surfer wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:51 pm
Wombatz wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:29 am
quoted coz i'm evil:
surfer wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:58 pm
Conte doesnt seem to have a clue, he's such a poor manager imo. Inter would do well to get rid of him sooner rather than later.
Was I right before I was wrong before I was right? Or was I wrong beforeI was right before I was wrong? Either way, if I keep flip flopping eventually I will been seen as the analytical genius that I am.

Re: Futbol '22-'23

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:26 pm
by surfer
Followed by an epic collapse at City. It wasnt that long ago we were all in agreement the Spurs defense were much improved and quite solid. But I read somewhere that they have conceded the most goals in the league since Oct? The whole back line seems out of sorts now. Top 4 seems out of reach, and even Europe seems a stretch for next year. You have to wonder if they lose today, and then get demolished again against City if Conte will last until the end of the year. I honestly dont know where they go from here. Tuchel seems more of the same to me, I'm not sure he gets anything more out of this squad than Conte. Their recruitment has been so haphazard, and there are so many positions to improve. GK, wingbacks, at least one more CB, creative mid. sell Son? Kane is open to signing a new contract, yay? Maybe we need to move on from all of the old guard. And I didnt even mention the fact that Paratici now has a financial fraud allegation hanging over his head. So maybe he goes with Conte.

Re: Futbol '22-'23

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:53 pm
by Wombatz
hey, they didn't lose! and conte might stay for the rest of the season. there was this strange article in the guardian that said he should go home to italy before all his friends there die, which read like he dropped some hints to the journalists, so he'll be gone after the season. we disagree tüchel would be more of the same. he's a geek and will drill everybody as part of a plan and will dare to seat sonny on the bench where he belongs (korean revenues be darned) and many of the players will play better simply because there's fewer individual decisions they can be afraid of ... on the other hand, could he develop the team into something sustainably top 3, could he get along with levy? probably no, but he'd fail differently and we want to see it :D (though i'm afraid the slight resurrection of poch will happen before we get to that)

Re: Futbol '22-'23

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:53 pm
by surfer
Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment overall. Conte has certainly been affected by the deaths of close friends, I dont think anyone is doubting that. It has been pointed out that this is more or less the same defensive lineup in same system, same coaching, and yet the defense / goals conceded have rapidly deteriorated since last year when they were one of the better defensive units in the PL. There are only a few possible explanations for this: a) the death of Ventrone and others have affected the whole squad b) certain players have rapidly been exposed as not good enough or have passed their peak (Dier and Lloris particularly have aged) c) Conte's uncertain commitment to the project and contract expiration has affected the players commitment to his vision d) possibly Romero is more important than realized. Not sure what other explanations there could be. Probably mostly (a) and (c), with a little bit of (b). City on the weekend is another litmus test.

Tough to read if the inactivity in the transfer market is indicative of Conte's contract status. Lots of players he doesnt favor going out on loan. Another wingback coming in. Seems to be in line with his vision.

I would prefer to keep Conte into next year rather than give Tuchel Conte's players and start over. That being said, I have no idea where this project is going except that I doubt it will end with everyone satisfied.