Futbol '22-'23

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surfer
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Futbol '22-'23

Post by surfer »

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Preseason optimism is so high for Spurs, almost makes you want to vomit.

Here are my predictions:

Top 6:

1. Liverpool
2. City
3. Spurs
4. United
5. Chelsea
6. Arsenal

18. Brentford
19. Fulham
20. Bournemouth

CL: City
FA Cup: Spurs

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Wombatz
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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

i have no clue but it's hard to believe in all the renaissances supposedly on the menu ... spurs will hit a rough spot again and conte will find it beneath him to work their way out of it ... i don't believe in arteta enough to think he can build a great team, nor in ten hag that he can solve man u, and while i'm a tuchel fanboy of course chelsea will have an off-season with what's gone down and he'll be fired.

so my prediction is like 50 points between second and third and probably west ham will make top 6 instead of one of the above. and maybe even newcastle. and leeds will go down instead of one of your picks. hm.

and i won't forgive you if city win the cl.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

(or maybe 50 points between first and second)

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by roger.haddad. »

Hard for me to see Liverpool winning this season after drawing w Fulham on day 1. They may get close but I just don't see it happening, I'd be happy to be proven wrong of course.

I have to say that at this point the situation at United is genuinely fascinating. There is no reason for them to perform as badly as they do, they play like they're cursed. I also think that even if Ten Hag is the right man for the job we'll never know because he'll get fired when they have a bad run.

Love Conte so Spurs doing well wouldn't be an issue for me, as long as they stay below Liverpool :D

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

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Unsatisfying draw for both Spurs and Chelsea. Tuchel "tactical masterclass" almost identical to what Brighton did to Spurs last year. With the defensive double pivot of Bentancour and Hojbjerg pushed deep and shielding the backline, boxed in and overrun by Mount / Havertz / Kante / Jorginho, all the supply lines were cut off: Kane dropping deep was pushed off the ball before he even got a touch, and the Royal / Sessegnon wingbacks were pinched along the sidelines. Kulusevski and Son were completely isolated. One of the problems that persists is that Bentancour and Hojbjerg dont have either the speed of Kante or the passing ability of Jorginho to progress the ball. And Chelsea set the traps in the right places. It was a really dispiriting performance, however I hold out hope that Bissouma is a different kind of defensive mid, more in the Kante mold. Switching to a 4-4-2 with Richarlison up top with Kane helped, until it required Son to track James which he didnt do leading to the second Chelsea goal.

Nice to get a smash and grab at the end, but both goals could and probably should have been chalked off: the first for Richarlison being off-side and imo clearly impeding Mendy's line of sight, causing him to dive late. and the second I dont know, Romero should have been sent off but I guess it was before the corner so it wouldnt have impacted Spurs getting to take the corner. The positive thing about having this match so early is it will reset everyone's expectations about where this club is actually at: still fighting for fourth and maybe not even favorites anymore.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by surfer »

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by roger.haddad. »

Liverpool looking thoroughly mid-table thus far. Only caught the last 30min of Spurs/Blues but much more entertaining lol. Not a fan of Tuchel's tough guy bullshit. Laughable really, made even better by the photo you just posted, Surfer.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

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Another week, another match where Spurs are overrun in the midfield. We are defensively pretty solid though, even without Romero, although Sanchez makes me very nervous. I would start Bissouma soon, and either bring Bentancour or Hojbjerg on at the 60th minute. I would continue starting Perisic who has been excellent for Sessegnon. I would also consider starting Richarlison for Son.

The Sportswashing Derby was great fun, some wonderful goals and assists: Saint-Maximin driving into the heart of the defense and making John Stones look incompetent (what a terrible match he had, lucky not to give away a penalty too!), KdB's nutmeg assist, Trippier's free kick.

The Lutz Derby I only watched the highlights, but its pretty clear Chelsea arent the same team without Kante (although Kovacic would have helped). I do think Mendy is a excellent keeper but he's got that in him. I'll never understand why keepers want to try Cruyff turns in front of their own goal. Tuchel v. Marsch, round one to JesseBall.

My son's question of the weekend: Ivan Toney mocked Mitrovic's "unscrewing the bulb" goal celebration and then Mitrovic scored the match winner. Can Mitrovic mock Toney's mocking of Mitovic's signature goal celebration? Can the mockee become the mocker?

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by roger.haddad. »

I almost put money on United the other day. Just had a feeling. This is vintage Liverpool we're seeing so far but to be fair the injuries they're dealing with are significant and it's a long season so I'll keep an open mind.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

that chelsea game was fun. spurs were so bad but we never feared they'd lose because (for obvious reasons) chelsea have such a shaky backline. i don't think tüchel can fix them (though he can make them run such pretty paths), he'll probably have used himself up being up-beat and dignified during the changeover. (btw re macho gestures: the fun thing about him is he will speak like an annoying motivational ted talk one minute, completely flip the lid in the next, then be super smart and rather personal guy with a wicked sense of humor.)

it's great to get the points, as it seems clear that conte will not make players run pretty paths but that he can make them thrive on confidence. half of the team are still underperforming or inconsistent, kane will have his proper run etc. ... funny though that nobody seems afraid of the thought of conte, or they wouldn't start so lethargically, but he will reach them during his halftime pep (ha!) talk.

speaking of which, coaches with silly approaches to pep (ha!) talks really seem to thrive (marsch, arteta).

in european competitions, i vote that foreign teams whose players cannot enter the uk for racist reasons should be allowed to pick the same number of players of their choice to ban from the english team.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

hey that looks doable (for spurs, less so for rats)

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

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hey, tüchel now free to take over rats! that's like perfect timing :D

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

of course it's totally unfair donetsk were allowed to play in camouflage.

marco rose. yawn. i guess it will more or less work. it's about deferring becoming a mid-table team season by season now.

spurs' results are so much better than their game.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by surfer »

I wonder how much Spurs flatter to deceive, as they say. A lot of comparisons to the Mourinho era, but I think the defense is much more solid and capable of absorbing pressure than they were under Jose, in order to create space on the counterattack. On the other hand, the gameplan against Spurs is pretty simple now: you overload the central midfield, pinch the wingbacks against the touchline, and cut off Kane as the supply line by aggressive man-marking. Spurs attack can work well against a team like Fulham, sputter completely against a team like Chelsea, and be unwatchable against a team like Marseille in which neither team creates any significant chances. City was going to be a significant litmus test, a team Spurs counterattacking seems to consistently work against. All these teams that play with two midfielders seem to have this similar issue. You have to have great wingbacks to make it work. The x-factor is Richarlison who gives them a significant aerial attack and the opportunity to play it long and bypass the midfield as they did when they had Llorente, and who will also press like crazy and create chances from giveaways. City is obviously going to run away with the league, but every other top 4 contender has significant issues and Spurs are no different, probably better off than most of the others.

Chelsea went from a half mad Russian oligarch to a full dingus "trust me, I've watched some soccer" American who appoints himself Director of Football Transfers. I dont see how Potter survives this meat grinder (with a team of players none of whom he selected) let alone gets them to play his style of football. I think its a terrible choice for his first step up

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

who needs city as a litmus test when they have sporting. also leicester had better x-goals while being convincingly beaten? i think you're right spurs do look tougher ... at least after the break with a good chiding by conte still ringing in their ears. happy for son but can this continue when folks start standing on his feet again? well, if the league results continue anything is possible :-)

i'm mad at rats not going for tüchel ... it would have been such a great fit not just theoretically but stylewise, nerdy outsiders all and such. so funny about bayern (and i must have posted my continued doubts about nagelsmann somewhere in earlier seasons) but nobody there to seriously take advantage this year (union won't do a leicester, i'm afraid). btw tüchel to bayern would end in total disaster, the rumours are predictable but i can't imagine they're seriously thinking about this.

potter to chelsea was pretty disgraceful and wish him all the worst. while e.g. nagelsmann had the excuse that probably bayern would never come calling again, potter surely could have finished taking brighton as far as possible and then taken an offer from a top team that's less of a hot seat.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

hm. dropping really deep but still being afraid of catching an opponent's breath is maybe not a promising tactic. the most worrying thing though is if the half-time dressing down no longer works.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by surfer »

Wombatz wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:15 am
hm. dropping really deep but still being afraid of catching an opponent's breath is maybe not a promising tactic. the most worrying thing though is if the half-time dressing down no longer works.
I'm not terribly disappointed in the result, I wasnt expecting a win, but a hard fought draw, and the first half was very even, and probably the xG reflects that up until the sending off. You can certainly criticize Spurs defensive positioning, they were obviously giving Arsenal too much space at the top of the box and Thomas punished them for that with a wonderful strike. But Spurs gameplan did work: they had numerous opportunities to counter and their final pass failed them. I've said it before, Son is a terrible passer for not only a player of his quality, but for any PL level player. Usually its because his head is down and he really only has it in mind to shoot, but on Saturday, there were at least two times when he could have played very simply diagonals and just mishit them: one to Kane which he horribly overhit over his head and out of play, and an even easier ball to roll into space for Richarlison which he overhit and took way wide. Both Kane and Richarlison would have been clear through on goal. There was at least one other one involving Son, and others with Royal, who is just a total liability going forward. Worth pointing out that Son also had a poor match defensively, but then again tracking back has never been his strong suit.

The technical mistakes worry me more than the strategic approach in a game like this, Arsenal were vulnerable on the counter. But the mistake by Lloris, the mental blackout by Royal (who would you rather have, Aurier or Royal? probably Aurier for me) killed this match. And for what its worth, I dont think the sending off was deserved, running away from the challenge, that's clearly a (very stupid and unnecessary) yellow for me.

You'll get no hang-wringing about style from me, I thought Spurs played well with the above mentioned caveats. Take away the glaring individual errors and place a few basic passes and there's a different taste in your mouth.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by surfer »

https://twitter.com/samw1t/status/15762 ... r__kdBGV_I

This is a small compilation, but I remember feeling relatively comfortable at the half that we were able to play the ball out and break the Arsenal press and generate pretty significant chances. Our xG at the half was better. You can debate style all day, but Spurs points tally is imo an accurate reflection of their relative strengths. Im not going to defend Conte to the grave, but I think he's built a pretty solid team and this result seems flukey, due to Lloris, Royal, and the evidence in the above clip.

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

Post by Wombatz »

peace! :D i didn't mean to suggest conte had ordered his men to leave nice spaces outside the box for shooting, and yes, final passes were abysmal and then also kulu will return ... many recent first halfs have looked like this, though, with energy levels pretty low when opponents have the ball, starting with kane trotting out triangles up front. a bit more energy and occasional turnovers already in midfield usually works quite well for spurs, no? today might be interesting, frankfurt have had some good games nationally, but spurs really should be able to control them if they choose to attempt that

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Re: Futbol '22-'23

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Wombatz wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:50 am
peace! :D many recent first halfs have looked like this, though, with energy levels pretty low when opponents have the ball, starting with kane trotting out triangles up front. a bit more energy and occasional turnovers already in midfield usually works quite well for spurs, no?
Of course! ;) Didnt mean my post to sound chippy, just quickly dashed off during a busy week. Just a peak at the starting 11 shows the exact team that started on Saturday. My criticism of Conte would be the total lack of rotation given some of the options he has. Is Skipp still injured, how about Lucas? No Doherty? Non stop Royal is giving me a rash.

Your post is fair of course, a bit more high up the pitch pressing to start the game might suit, but you do wonder about the miles on some of the players, particularly Son and Kane, and how a solid defensive shape requires (in theory) less effort than high a press. That's probably how this system is being sold to Kane and Son who are not young. I dont want to keep harping on it, but the key to this 3-4-3 two midfield system are a) world class wingbacks who can deliver into the box and defend b) a defensive pivot that can progress the ball either by deep passing or bursts of dribbling that break the press. I would argue on Saturday we some saw evidence of (b). But yes a bit more proactive strategic pressing like Liverpool do would take some of the pressure off the defense.

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