Roscoe Mitchell and AEC/AACM as proto-"eai"

[negative potential]

How much were Roscoe Mitchell and the Art Ensemble of Chicago/AACM antecedents of the whole "eai"/reductionist/lowercase/laminal stream of improvisation?

Reconsidering "Sound" and those early AEC sides in light of recent Roscoe Mitchell live sets and "Bells for the South Side", I'd say: very, very much.

No slight to AMM or MEV or SME or any of those other European acronym groups, but if canon formation is a history of deletions and re-inscriptions, then it's time to re-inscribe this thread.

[Wombatz]

'sound' is a great record! a couple of minutes indeed sound like proto eai during mitchell's solo, which is partly just breath and key noises. other passages are more like shepp on tiptoes or even a proper mingus workshop. there are heads and solo spots etc ...

it seems to me that mitchell is mentioned quite often (not necessarily as a precursor of whatever genre, but as the guy in jazz most open to silence/compositional use of space/whatever), along with the (to me, decidedly overrated) anthony braxton? here's their duo. i'd label this music avant third stream maybe.

[negative potential]

Even more than Sound (which is fantastic), his most recent thing, on ECM, "Bells for the South Side", is even more in this "avant-garde third stream" area. I picked it up at a recent live duo he did with George Lewis. (opening act was Marcus Schmickler and Julian Rohrhuber!)

[jon abbey]

FWIW, George Lewis told me in person this summer that Erstwhile was a big influence on him around 15 years ago.

[negative potential]

FWIW, George Lewis told me in person this summer that Erstwhile was a big influence on him around 15 years ago.

That makes a lot of sense given the kind of stuff he was doing earlier in the set; lots of electronics, much of it very drone-oriented, to complement Mitchell.

On the other hand, there was a real jarring section with a player piano that I had a hard time figuring out - no idea if Lewis was manipulating it in real time, or if he was just triggering some pre-recorded sequence from his laptop, or if the piano itself was "improvising" on the basis of some sort of input by Lewis.

The last 10 minutes or so, though, just Mitchell and Lewis in duo with saxophone and trombone, was magical.

[J.F.]

I listened to tons of Sun Ra last summer, and repeatedly thought some studio productions from circa 1963 anticipate an AACM-vibe. Not sure anymore in how far that includes the aspect of "reduced" playing though. But in regards of eai, the electronic part is obviously there. Most of the Sun Ra catalogue still is quite new to me, maybe somebody else who's more familiar with that material can chime in.

I read "A Power stronger than itself" and remember Sun Ra came up there, but I'm not sure anymore if the AACM-people acknowledged Mr. Blount as influence.

To me, looking specifically at the AACM makes sense only up to circa 1969, since at some point very reduced playing popped up all over the place, not only in the british scene (around M.I.C., AMM, Parker/Lytton etc). Gunter Hampel's "Crepuscule" from 8th of July 1969 is the most radical one coming to mind. Most of its 26 minutes is unaccompagnied low-volume soloing and I find it much more effective and exciting than Mitchell's "Sound". Let me add that LP features two AACM-musicians (Braxton & McCall).
Talking about Braxton who got a critical comment above: I'm sure his early trio with Leo Smith and Leroy Jenkins is relevant too in this context. There's an LP called Silence, and as far as I remember the track of the same name includes lots of exactly that: Silence (without looking it up I'd say it was Smith's idea).

Let's look even at two maximum chatty noise makers: First example I know of Han Bennink reducing his solo improvising to almost silence is from 1966, and there's been many more since. A side note: There's a photo of Bennink from around 1970 with an electrified zither - always reminded me of photos I saw around here. And I recall Alfred Harth writing about how he in a 1971/72 studio session stood there doing nothing but breathing through the saxophones together with (tush tush) Peter Brötzmann. So maybe nothing too special at that time anymore - and that's exactly my point. Seems low volume improv was AACM-specific for quite a short time period only.

[Steve Minkin]

the british scene (around M.I.C., AMM, Parker/Lytton etc).

SME with John Stevens, Derek Bailey and Kent Carter.

[Steve Minkin]

SME with John Stevens, Derek Bailey and Kent Carter.

The redundancy squad squad notes they were mentioned at the birth of the thread.