Why Improvised Music is so Boring
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leroysghost
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
Well, porn is a vapid engine of capitalism. Sex devoid of sexiness. Ya know, just like improvised music.
torn, toiled and troubled
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billygomberg
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
2:50:11 PM thenapalmskronk: if this performance doesn't get me hard, I'm walking out.billygomberg wrote:titillated
2:51:09 PM billy gomberg: exactly right
2:51:27 PM billy gomberg: i really want to know what porn he intends to screen
2:51:35 PM billy gomberg: b/c there are a lot of places you can go with that
2:51:37 PM thenapalmskronk: yeah, I do too
2:51:42 PM billy gomberg: but that has MEANING
2:51:45 PM billy gomberg: and INTENTION
2:51:49 PM billy gomberg: and i don't think he has either
2:52:19 PM thenapalmskronk: well, by picking his porn clip. there's at least accidental meaning and intention created as to be interpreted by the audience
2:52:33 PM billy gomberg: well and he has to know that
2:52:38 PM thenapalmskronk: hopefully
2:53:19 PM billy gomberg: and yeah
2:53:25 PM billy gomberg: how is porn (really) transgressive
2:53:33 PM billy gomberg: as an art technique
2:53:34 PM billy gomberg: in 2011
2:53:45 PM thenapalmskronk: right
2:53:59 PM billy gomberg: much less
2:54:01 PM billy gomberg: how is porn
2:54:02 PM thenapalmskronk: unless berlin is just SO UPTIGHT
2:54:02 PM billy gomberg: in general
2:54:04 PM billy gomberg: transgressive
2:54:10 PM billy gomberg: which i dont see being the case
2:54:12 PM thenapalmskronk: yeah
2:54:32 PM billy gomberg: i like how his one response
2:54:36 PM billy gomberg: is basically asking for a gig
2:55:06 PM thenapalmskronk: yep
2:55:28 PM billy gomberg: i don't see why any venue or promoter would go for this
2:55:47 PM billy gomberg: b/c porn is pretty tedious
2:56:01 PM billy gomberg: if you aren't using it for it's uh utility
2:56:08 PM billy gomberg: which may be his point
2:56:11 PM billy gomberg: but i doubt it
2:56:21 PM thenapalmskronk: well. that would be a GREAT point
2:56:28 PM billy gomberg: thus
2:56:37 PM billy gomberg: improv is tedious bc it has no utility
2:56:37 PM thenapalmskronk: it would support his argument that improvised music is pretty tedious too
2:56:39 PM thenapalmskronk: durr
2:56:49 PM thenapalmskronk: but I really doubt that's what he's going for
2:56:53 PM billy gomberg: no
2:56:56 PM thenapalmskronk: or if it is, I doubt he can express it
2:57:08 PM billy gomberg: yes
2:57:26 PM thenapalmskronk: I mean, you've just convinced me
2:57:31 PM thenapalmskronk: it sounds like a great performance
2:57:36 PM billy gomberg: IF/BUT
2:57:42 PM thenapalmskronk: I probably would laugh my way through it.
2:57:48 PM billy gomberg: exactly
2:57:50 PM billy gomberg: and
2:57:56 PM billy gomberg: the choice of porn is pretty crucial
2:57:59 PM thenapalmskronk: yes
2:58:06 PM billy gomberg: there is some pretty offensive shit
2:58:12 PM billy gomberg: that i'm sure is easy to find in berlin
2:58:48 PM thenapalmskronk: but this really calls for some stupid shit. some sausage pizza delivery plotlines.
2:59:00 PM thenapalmskronk: that would make the concept shine
3:00:44 PM billy gomberg: or some long form amateur nonsense
3:00:56 PM billy gomberg: bc that is really what is dominated the nets right now
3:01:02 PM billy gomberg: the pizza delivery/plumber thing
3:01:05 PM thenapalmskronk: well, yes
3:01:05 PM billy gomberg: is pretty old school
3:01:18 PM billy gomberg: just load up one of those free websites
3:01:22 PM billy gomberg: sort by duration
3:01:26 PM billy gomberg: pick a number
3:01:28 PM billy gomberg: play
3:01:28 PM thenapalmskronk: OK, how's this: a slideshow of iphone self-pics
3:02:03 PM billy gomberg: that could work
3:02:19 PM billy gomberg: but i kind of like the idea of pretty banal amateur stuff
3:02:22 PM billy gomberg: SLOWED DOWN
3:02:26 PM thenapalmskronk: haha
3:03:01 PM billy gomberg: should we just post this chat to that thread
3:04:12 PM thenapalmskronk: that could work
3:04:27 PM billy gomberg: i'm gonna do it
Last edited by billygomberg on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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diegochamy
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
hello simon, i try to answer to your questions:
- why do you feel the need to publicly denounce improvised music rather than just moving on to another form of music / art that you now prefer?
I'm not publicly denouncing improvised music. This is only a performance, which means that you don't have to take the "meaning" of the words I said there as my personal thoughts or beliefs. I might be speaking about improvised music during the performance, but the performance itself is not about improvised music. Besides, it's quite clear that you can't say anything about "improvised music", insofar as it is a generalization. You can speak about John's music, Peter's music, and so on, but not about "improvised music". Well, you can, but I don't think that by doing it you'll help promoting creative thoughts and practices. In any case, the point is that it was not my aim to say anything about improvised music. The piece is not about improvised music.
- do you think there's a difference between saying "I now find improvised music boring" and making the (pseudo-)objective statement "improvised music is boring"?
Yes, I think they are two very different ways of saying something. Not only at the formal level, but also affectively and politically. I mean, the impact on the world and on others is definitively different in the two statements.
- do you really think that pornography is more interesting / radical than improvised music? (fwiw I think it's crushingly conformist and boring)
I personally have more trouble thinking of and understanding (in a general way) pornography than thinking (in a general way) of improvised music. As simple as that. In my own confrontation with the medium (pornography), I find that new problems constantly emerge on me. In the end, I have many more questions than answers, but my questions are also not completely useful in clearly formulating problems. They are loose questions that sometimes contradict each other and that don’t achieve a precise direction. But this is very personal. Other people seem to have everything clear about porn, or don't feel that it makes them think much. It's normal I guess. I can share some of my questions about porn with you, and we can speak long about them, but I think it's off the topic. However, all this doesn't mean that watching a porn clip is necessarily more interesting for me than listening to an improvised music concert (again, you don't have to take what I say during the performance as what I think). In any case, it would certainly depend on what porn clip and what improvised music concert (no kidding).
- did you want your questions to generate a discussion during the performance? The format didn't seem to allow this, and it comes over as a rather controlling assertion of your own position?
I didn't want to generate any discussion during the performance, and I pretty much wanted to assert my alleged own position. I say this very clearly in the text about the performance (I don't know if you had the chance to read it, on my web). I copy it here: "A rhetorical question is not so much a question as a device used to assert or deny something. In this performance I don't look for interesting answers from the audience. It's clear that if this were my intention I would have chosen other types of questions (or I would have let the audience ask their own questions).The point here is not whether "improvised music" is boring or not. The point is the mixture of confusion and disappointment generated by someone making this statement and "hiding" it in the form of a question. Another interesting aspect to these questions is the stupidity carried within their generalizations. One can speak about John's music, Peter's music, and so on, but "improvised music," insofar as it is a generalization, doesn't help us think creatively. Nonetheless, in their stupidity, I find the raw use of generalizations and the flagrant use of rhetorical questions very interesting. The same goes for the "comparison" I make between the music being performed on stage and the song I sing at the end of the video."
- if more people were interested in improvised music, would it make it less boring, and why?
Sorry but I find this kind of questions even more senseless than the rhetorical ones. It's like asking "What would have happened if Hitler were killed before he ascended to power in Germany?" You don't want to spend energy answering that one... it's just history-fiction.
- when you asked if improvised music was 'relevant', what did you mean? Relevant to what?
I didn't mean anything in particular. My only intention was to make a flagrant use of rhetorical questions.
- do you think that your performance was more "intelligent" or "useful" than a duo improvisation by Seijiro and Jean-Luc? And if so, in what ways?
It was probably more useful for some people and less useful for some others. I call for pragmatism in art, which means that I believe it's great when someone can "make use" of an action/production of another person. But since we're all different, everyone can find useful something else. I've never had the chance to see Seijiro and Jean-Luc improvising in duo, but in any case I wouldn't know what to answer about which performance would have been more "intelligent"... Most of my actions are very stupid. Stupidity is an important material in my work, so it would be a bit nonsense (or stupid
) if I now claim that what I do is more "intelligent."
- I'd rather listen again to any of your old improv cd's than the song you sang in the performance, which I got nothing from. As you might put it, "why do something so bad?"
I think it's difficult to get something from the song I sung looking at the video. But you might have not got nothing from it even if you were there. I think most of the people did though. It's very personal, as everything. Maybe some day I have the chance to sing for you and then we'll see if you get something from it or not. I can't tell. In any case, the song in that performance is not only the song but also the dance. Although you probably didn't get anything from it either.
- I'm interested and don't mean to be too confrontational.
I felt that, otherwise I wouldn't have spent time answering (as you might have already noticed it). But thanks for the questions, I like (and need) to think of this. Feel free to ask more questions if you want. And say something about yourself, otherwise I feel stupid.
- why do you feel the need to publicly denounce improvised music rather than just moving on to another form of music / art that you now prefer?
I'm not publicly denouncing improvised music. This is only a performance, which means that you don't have to take the "meaning" of the words I said there as my personal thoughts or beliefs. I might be speaking about improvised music during the performance, but the performance itself is not about improvised music. Besides, it's quite clear that you can't say anything about "improvised music", insofar as it is a generalization. You can speak about John's music, Peter's music, and so on, but not about "improvised music". Well, you can, but I don't think that by doing it you'll help promoting creative thoughts and practices. In any case, the point is that it was not my aim to say anything about improvised music. The piece is not about improvised music.
- do you think there's a difference between saying "I now find improvised music boring" and making the (pseudo-)objective statement "improvised music is boring"?
Yes, I think they are two very different ways of saying something. Not only at the formal level, but also affectively and politically. I mean, the impact on the world and on others is definitively different in the two statements.
- do you really think that pornography is more interesting / radical than improvised music? (fwiw I think it's crushingly conformist and boring)
I personally have more trouble thinking of and understanding (in a general way) pornography than thinking (in a general way) of improvised music. As simple as that. In my own confrontation with the medium (pornography), I find that new problems constantly emerge on me. In the end, I have many more questions than answers, but my questions are also not completely useful in clearly formulating problems. They are loose questions that sometimes contradict each other and that don’t achieve a precise direction. But this is very personal. Other people seem to have everything clear about porn, or don't feel that it makes them think much. It's normal I guess. I can share some of my questions about porn with you, and we can speak long about them, but I think it's off the topic. However, all this doesn't mean that watching a porn clip is necessarily more interesting for me than listening to an improvised music concert (again, you don't have to take what I say during the performance as what I think). In any case, it would certainly depend on what porn clip and what improvised music concert (no kidding).
- did you want your questions to generate a discussion during the performance? The format didn't seem to allow this, and it comes over as a rather controlling assertion of your own position?
I didn't want to generate any discussion during the performance, and I pretty much wanted to assert my alleged own position. I say this very clearly in the text about the performance (I don't know if you had the chance to read it, on my web). I copy it here: "A rhetorical question is not so much a question as a device used to assert or deny something. In this performance I don't look for interesting answers from the audience. It's clear that if this were my intention I would have chosen other types of questions (or I would have let the audience ask their own questions).The point here is not whether "improvised music" is boring or not. The point is the mixture of confusion and disappointment generated by someone making this statement and "hiding" it in the form of a question. Another interesting aspect to these questions is the stupidity carried within their generalizations. One can speak about John's music, Peter's music, and so on, but "improvised music," insofar as it is a generalization, doesn't help us think creatively. Nonetheless, in their stupidity, I find the raw use of generalizations and the flagrant use of rhetorical questions very interesting. The same goes for the "comparison" I make between the music being performed on stage and the song I sing at the end of the video."
- if more people were interested in improvised music, would it make it less boring, and why?
Sorry but I find this kind of questions even more senseless than the rhetorical ones. It's like asking "What would have happened if Hitler were killed before he ascended to power in Germany?" You don't want to spend energy answering that one... it's just history-fiction.
- when you asked if improvised music was 'relevant', what did you mean? Relevant to what?
I didn't mean anything in particular. My only intention was to make a flagrant use of rhetorical questions.
- do you think that your performance was more "intelligent" or "useful" than a duo improvisation by Seijiro and Jean-Luc? And if so, in what ways?
It was probably more useful for some people and less useful for some others. I call for pragmatism in art, which means that I believe it's great when someone can "make use" of an action/production of another person. But since we're all different, everyone can find useful something else. I've never had the chance to see Seijiro and Jean-Luc improvising in duo, but in any case I wouldn't know what to answer about which performance would have been more "intelligent"... Most of my actions are very stupid. Stupidity is an important material in my work, so it would be a bit nonsense (or stupid
) if I now claim that what I do is more "intelligent."- I'd rather listen again to any of your old improv cd's than the song you sang in the performance, which I got nothing from. As you might put it, "why do something so bad?"
I think it's difficult to get something from the song I sung looking at the video. But you might have not got nothing from it even if you were there. I think most of the people did though. It's very personal, as everything. Maybe some day I have the chance to sing for you and then we'll see if you get something from it or not. I can't tell. In any case, the song in that performance is not only the song but also the dance. Although you probably didn't get anything from it either.
- I'm interested and don't mean to be too confrontational.
I felt that, otherwise I wouldn't have spent time answering (as you might have already noticed it). But thanks for the questions, I like (and need) to think of this. Feel free to ask more questions if you want. And say something about yourself, otherwise I feel stupid.
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billygomberg
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_lawdiegochamy wrote: - if more people were interested in improvised music, would it make it less boring, and why?
Sorry but I find this kind of questions even more senseless than the rhetorical ones. It's like asking "What would have happened if Hitler were killed before he ascended to power in Germany?" You don't want to spend energy answering that one... it's just history-fiction.
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diegochamy
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
I know Godwin's law, that's exactly why I chose that examplebillygomberg wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_lawdiegochamy wrote: - if more people were interested in improvised music, would it make it less boring, and why?
Sorry but I find this kind of questions even more senseless than the rhetorical ones. It's like asking "What would have happened if Hitler were killed before he ascended to power in Germany?" You don't want to spend energy answering that one... it's just history-fiction.
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billygomberg
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
great. good for you.diegochamy wrote:I know Godwin's law, that's exactly why I chose that examplebillygomberg wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_lawdiegochamy wrote: - if more people were interested in improvised music, would it make it less boring, and why?
Sorry but I find this kind of questions even more senseless than the rhetorical ones. It's like asking "What would have happened if Hitler were killed before he ascended to power in Germany?" You don't want to spend energy answering that one... it's just history-fiction.
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
I have a rhetorical question: if the clip in the first post was of a shit-throwing monkey, would the rest of the thread be much different? will Barry book Diego to throw shit at the audience next year? stay tuned to this video channel!
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
well, the shit-throwing monkey's performance might actually have been about improvised music.
The grammatical rules associated with diagrammatic reduction become apparent by considering a more tractable diagrammatic representation, applied to the Windsor knot in Fig. 8. - Fink & Mao, Tie knots, random walks and topology, (Physica A 276)
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
no, that's a generalization and doesn't help us think creatively. throwing shit at people, now that helps us think creatively.RFKorp wrote:well, the shit-throwing monkey's performance might actually have been about improvised music.
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
the monkey wrote:I didn't mean anything in particular. My only intention was to make a flagrant use of shit.
The grammatical rules associated with diagrammatic reduction become apparent by considering a more tractable diagrammatic representation, applied to the Windsor knot in Fig. 8. - Fink & Mao, Tie knots, random walks and topology, (Physica A 276)
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
we could dislike this without being abusive.
m
m
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schiksalgemeinschaft
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
(EDIT)
I just think there are much more noble ways to spend your energy on. And not even more noble ways, but also more concrete and productive methods to help make this world a better place. The way I see it, you don't want to spend energy with talking into a microphone on a stage to get attention for your (confusing) opinion about a particular subset of art. How bourgeois is that?
So I guess I have a question: what is your motivation for doing all this?
I do not see a big difference with your performance nor your posts here. If you think improvised music is boring or if you want to create confusion about such statements, fine. But trying to discuss such confusion, the reactions, the formalities of your own piece, etc. seem about as elusive and speculative to me as "What would have happened if Hilter...".diegochamy wrote: - if more people were interested in improvised music, would it make it less boring, and why?
Sorry but I find this kind of questions even more senseless than the rhetorical ones. It's like asking "What would have happened if Hitler were killed before he ascended to power in Germany?" You don't want to spend energy answering that one... it's just history-fiction.
I just think there are much more noble ways to spend your energy on. And not even more noble ways, but also more concrete and productive methods to help make this world a better place. The way I see it, you don't want to spend energy with talking into a microphone on a stage to get attention for your (confusing) opinion about a particular subset of art. How bourgeois is that?
So I guess I have a question: what is your motivation for doing all this?
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
Don't feed the troll
(just occurred to me: Chamy is the Tao Lin of our squalid little world)
(just occurred to me: Chamy is the Tao Lin of our squalid little world)
You, of all people, should understand
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
In a book review in the New York Times, Charles Bock described the book as "more interesting as a concept than as an actual narrative", and summarized "By the time I reached the last 50 pages, each time the characters said they wanted to kill themselves, I knew exactly how they felt."
referring to Tao Lin's novel, Richard Yates
referring to Tao Lin's novel, Richard Yates
http://crowwithnomouth.wordpress.com/
Experimental music should be something that suggests a way of organizing your thinking, your attitude toward the world, which suggests that the world could be different.
Christian Wolff 2014
Experimental music should be something that suggests a way of organizing your thinking, your attitude toward the world, which suggests that the world could be different.
Christian Wolff 2014
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
I actually kinda like Tao Lin......
The grammatical rules associated with diagrammatic reduction become apparent by considering a more tractable diagrammatic representation, applied to the Windsor knot in Fig. 8. - Fink & Mao, Tie knots, random walks and topology, (Physica A 276)
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
I agree - challenging motivations and blanket-assertions around improvised music is important, and I was with you, Diego - right up to the point when you began singing.
I was reminded of your performance recently, the one in which you presented quotations to Mattin... Earlier in that performance you suggested it would take you a "week of practising" (paraphrased) to learn to play pop music. Maybe I'm wrong, but watching your clip I would swear that you were deliberately trying to dance awkwardly and sing un-tunefully. Was this the case?
Unless you really were trying your best, in which case I apologise for suggesting otherwise.
I was reminded of your performance recently, the one in which you presented quotations to Mattin... Earlier in that performance you suggested it would take you a "week of practising" (paraphrased) to learn to play pop music. Maybe I'm wrong, but watching your clip I would swear that you were deliberately trying to dance awkwardly and sing un-tunefully. Was this the case?
My answer would be that it wasn't. But it could have been if you'd not approached it so ironically."Why do you think the song was better than the music?"
Unless you really were trying your best, in which case I apologise for suggesting otherwise.
"Metaphors are effective nine times out of ten and quotations seven times out of ten, but impromptu words come forth every day" - Chuang Tzu
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Dan Warburton
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
To what extent was this performance then an attempt to promote creative thought and practice? How does watching you doing your silly dance improve my creative thought? The only thing it did to me was annoy me. Was that the idea? Epater les bourgeois is a bit old hat now, don't you think?diegochamy wrote:You can speak about John's music, Peter's music, and so on, but not about "improvised music". Well, you can, but I don't think that by doing it you'll help promoting creative thoughts and practices.
Why?diegochamy wrote:I call for pragmatism in art
Really? I can recommend their work very highly. All you have to do is sit down and listen to it attentively. It doesn't even need the crutches of an explanatory text. You see, I happen to believe - boring old fart that I probably am - that music can and does speak for itself perfectly well, and doesn't need to come wrapped up in specious conceptual horseshit. Though presumably, with that trite catchy little slogan "music is about more than just music" , what was I to expect? (Let's forget the porn "discussion" too, that's just a smokescreen to try and squeeze out some more mileage from the tired Keenan wanker debate a few months ago.)diegochamy wrote:I've never had the chance to see Seijiro and Jean-Luc improvising in duo
No, the question I'd like answering is, since you're all so keen on questioning everything, or say you are, how much were you paid to perform, where did the money come from, and do you think the expense was justified? And it would be good to hear from Barry Esson on that one.
http://www.paristransatlantic.com
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
Huh, I kinda took this as an Andy Kaufman-esque device sustain an elevated awareness/intensity for everyone involved... Putting myself in either the musicians, the audience, or diego's shoes, I think i'd feel the overwhelming awareness of the usual improv concerts' pretext and convention being stressed and intensified, which certainly must change the way one listens to the music/performance and experiences the whole thing... Like instead of a particular mode of listening, a mode of experiencing.
This would certainly lose it's effect after repeated exposures, but once in a while, why not?
Diego, did one of the earlier, unsuspecting participants really throw a chair at you? Do you smooth things over after or f 'em if they can't take a joke?
This would certainly lose it's effect after repeated exposures, but once in a while, why not?
Diego, did one of the earlier, unsuspecting participants really throw a chair at you? Do you smooth things over after or f 'em if they can't take a joke?
Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
hah! what he said...Dan Warburton wrote: that music can and does speak for itself perfectly well, and doesn't need to come wrapped up in specious conceptual horseshit. .
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simon reynell
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Re: Why Improvised Music is so Boring
Horaflora wrote: “This would certainly lose its effect after repeated exposures, but once in a while, why not?”
I agree with this, and am obviously not as hostile to what Diego’s doing as some people. But I did find the performance / video disappointing.
Diego, some time ago you posted a link to a long piece you’d written about the reactions to an improv competition that took place in Berlin. I found that article very interesting and felt it raised a lot of good, challenging points about the often unspoken assumptions underlying improvised music. So I hoped that this performance would do something similar, but for me it failed to. I think part of the problem was your use of rhetorical questions. It’s just too easy to throw out a number of provocative questions, but that’s no substitute for the hard work of developing a solid argument. So it came over to me as clever-clever – as though you thought you had all the answers - but intellectually the piece was actually glib and didn’t have much substance. If the performance element had been dramatically riveting or beautiful that might not have mattered, but it wasn’t.
I wasn’t at Instal, but reading Richard Pinnell’s reports there seemed to be a sense of smug superiority vis-à-vis improvised music in a number of the performances/discussions. As I think Jesse K said on Richard’s blog at the time, it sounded as if some of the contributors assumed that anyone into improvised music was mindlessly stuck in it without applying any critical intelligence. Unfortunately I felt your performance fitted into that condescending tendency (and its title certainly didn't help). Criticism is welcome, but I’d much rather read a thought-through article than attend a performance which seems to be looking down its nose at me while prodding with a stick to try to provoke a reaction.
Thanks for your answers to my questions, though. They were reasonable (and perhaps more enlightening than the performance). But I’m still not clear – as Schicksal said above - “what is your motivation for doing this?” If it’s simply to provoke, then so be it, but that feels adolescent and – as Dan says - “épater les bourgeois is a bit old hat”. On the other hand, if you seriously want to open up a reasoned debate within the improv world – and posting here would imply that you do - then it would surely make sense to do it in a form that people don’t feel insulted by. Almost everyone here (including those who have been rude to you) thinks hard about music and is open to critical debates about its social and philosophical aspects, but there needs to be mutual respect in any meaningful dialogue, and unfortunately I don’t think your performance set things off in a useful or respectful way.
But please do write more articles, because that was really interesting.
I agree with this, and am obviously not as hostile to what Diego’s doing as some people. But I did find the performance / video disappointing.
Diego, some time ago you posted a link to a long piece you’d written about the reactions to an improv competition that took place in Berlin. I found that article very interesting and felt it raised a lot of good, challenging points about the often unspoken assumptions underlying improvised music. So I hoped that this performance would do something similar, but for me it failed to. I think part of the problem was your use of rhetorical questions. It’s just too easy to throw out a number of provocative questions, but that’s no substitute for the hard work of developing a solid argument. So it came over to me as clever-clever – as though you thought you had all the answers - but intellectually the piece was actually glib and didn’t have much substance. If the performance element had been dramatically riveting or beautiful that might not have mattered, but it wasn’t.
I wasn’t at Instal, but reading Richard Pinnell’s reports there seemed to be a sense of smug superiority vis-à-vis improvised music in a number of the performances/discussions. As I think Jesse K said on Richard’s blog at the time, it sounded as if some of the contributors assumed that anyone into improvised music was mindlessly stuck in it without applying any critical intelligence. Unfortunately I felt your performance fitted into that condescending tendency (and its title certainly didn't help). Criticism is welcome, but I’d much rather read a thought-through article than attend a performance which seems to be looking down its nose at me while prodding with a stick to try to provoke a reaction.
Thanks for your answers to my questions, though. They were reasonable (and perhaps more enlightening than the performance). But I’m still not clear – as Schicksal said above - “what is your motivation for doing this?” If it’s simply to provoke, then so be it, but that feels adolescent and – as Dan says - “épater les bourgeois is a bit old hat”. On the other hand, if you seriously want to open up a reasoned debate within the improv world – and posting here would imply that you do - then it would surely make sense to do it in a form that people don’t feel insulted by. Almost everyone here (including those who have been rude to you) thinks hard about music and is open to critical debates about its social and philosophical aspects, but there needs to be mutual respect in any meaningful dialogue, and unfortunately I don’t think your performance set things off in a useful or respectful way.
But please do write more articles, because that was really interesting.