Bresson

[markt]

It would make an interesting double bill with Monty Python and the Holy Grail (incidentally, made the following year), since both films work in a vaguely similar way. Instead of undermining the heroism of the Arthurian myth with absurd humour, Bresson does it with an anti-climactic lack of special effects or emotion. Everyone walks around like sullen zombies; there is a monotonous jousting match. Actually it's one of my favourites of his, since the acting style consciously jars with the tradition it's working with (or maybe not - aren't Thomas Malory's characters pretty monotonous to begin with?).

Funny you should say so, I'm doing an Arthurian Romance course focused mostly around the Malory, and both of these films are on the syllabus (along with the truly awful Excalibur (1981)... which is sub-"so bad it's good"). Holy Grail is an old favourite of mine. When I told the prof I had really liked A Man Escaped and Diary of a Country Priest (those're the only Bresson films I've seen), he told me I was "in for a treat"!

Watching Lancelot du Lac next week and looking forward to it... I'll bump this thread then, if I have anything worth saying about it.

(Oh, and I wouldn't call the characters "monotonous" (though there is a lot of repetition in the text) - maybe they're just a bit dim. Malory seems so intent on cutting the editorial fat that sometimes their actions seem to come out of nowhere!)

[markt]

Lancelot du Lac (1974)

Saw this over the weekend and really liked it.
I'd second what P. Wretch had to say - the amateur actors work really well - and I'd add that the sound design is outstanding! Everyone makes such a racket with their armour that the quiet scenes (that is, when the armour comes off ) take on a kind of eerie tension.
If you're still on the fence about this one, Dan, it's worth checking out.

[Dan Warburton]

I will indeed.

[leroysghost]

Robert Bresson - Diary of a Country Priest (1951)
just sounds like a bunch of pious bitching to me. admittedly that's probably what you would find in a priest's diary, but the film falls flat on it's face when it inexplicably backs up the main character (something noticeably avoided in the rather similar Pickpocket). superfluous shots, painful music choices, an unfilmably miraculous conversion scene and an ending the film in no way earns killed this one unequivocally for me. very surprising because for me Bresson is the most ambiguous of directors. chalk this one up to his not fully developed style i guess.

now at least i get why people assign trite christian messages to his other films. this approach still seems unnecessary though, seeing as his style later became so essential that it shed inherent meaning entirely (as opposed to this and Les dames du Bois de Boulogne, which strike me as being simply meaningless).

Robert Bresson - Mouchette (1967)
this is what i mean by ambiguous, especially that last shot.

dose she tear the dress on purpose? does she die? why does the final shot keep going forwards and backwards instead of freeze frame? very perplexing stuff.

[ttg]

If Bresson's Catholicism and his (alleged?) following of Jansenist doctrine are taken into account his films are not at all ambigous.

Pre-destination and the incorrigibility of human evil seem to be the major themes in his work.
Or, more clearly, they represent a hopeless world view where all is a disaster.
I think this is most clear in Mouchette and L'Argent.
Although his very cynical Lancelot du Lac is pretty close.

It's worth noting that Jansenism is a condemned heresy and it seems that some conflict in Bresson's thought between this doctrine and orthodox Catholic teaching are present in his films. As though he were trying to work out for himself where he thought the truth lie.
I think this is probably most clear in Journal d'un curé de campagne.

The exception to the above comments is Les dames du Bois de Boulogne which was written by Jean Cocteau.

[leroysghost]

he certainly doesn't have sunny world view, but that is the only thing you can say for sure about most of his films (at least the half dozen that i've seen). that's the interesting thing about his style, it's so ambiguous that even his own opinions don't count. Bresson is most like a painter in this respect. sure, afterwards you can do research about their religion and biography, but the first thing you see is paint on a wall that means whatever you bring to it.

and Cocteau only wrote the dialogue for Les dames du Bois de Boulogne. it was written by Bresson and based on an 18th century novel.

[ttg]

Ah, I misremebered about Les Dames... still clearly not a fully formed Bresson work.

About the rest, I never found Bresson ambigous.

Austere and subtle but not ambiguous.

The painting metaphor doesn't work unless you are specifically referring to non-representational painting.

Which then wouldn't apply.

Bresson's films have plots, a story arc, clear protagonists and antagonists, etc.

It all seems rather plain to me.

and:

just sounds like a bunch of pious bitching to me. admittedly that's probably what you would find in a priest's diary,

Do you know any priests? Is bigotry of any kind useful?

[leroysghost]

well i don't find Bresson to be particularly austere (and i can't say that there are clear antagonists in his films either).

if you take any number of paintings of saint sebastian you have no way of knowing which painters were religious and which ones thought it was a truthful expression of cruelty in the world (or were attracted by any other reason like sexuality, form, lineage, commission etc.).

if his films are so clear i'd like someone to explain to me why he chose to end Mouchette the way he did. or whether or not the girl in Balthazar kills herself. why does Balthazar receive a flesh wound instead of an obviously mortal one? are all the animals in the circus scene anthropomorphic, or is Balthazar the only one? is Balthazar anthropomorphic in the first place? what is the meaning of the note that serves as the narration for Pickpocket? is it a diary, a confession, a farewell message to Jeanne? why does Guinevere change her mind? is she repentant, a fatalist or simply capricious?

just sounds like a bunch of pious bitching to me. admittedly that's probably what you would find in a priest's diary,

Do you know any priests? Is bigotry of any kind useful?

that's the nature of diaries...not sure what knowing any priests have to do with it (and of course not all diaries, though it's what they are best suited for).

[Dan Warburton]

I suggest we all go and read the Georges Bernanos books (Journal, Mouchette..) on which these films are based.
Bresson not austere? Man, I can't think of anyone more so. Who's austere in cinema for you, LG?

[ttg]

just sounds like a bunch of pious bitching to me. admittedly that's probably what you would find in a priest's diary,

Do you know any priests? Is bigotry of any kind useful?

that's the nature of diaries...not sure what knowing any priests have to do with it (and of course not all diaries, though it's what they are best suited for).

The phrase 'pious bitching' isn't a general statement about diaries. 'what you would find in a priest's diary' seems to point to it being specifically about priests. Which would make knowing at least one or two priests perhaps a requisite for making a generalization? Unless, of course, you think that all diaries are best suited for 'pious bitching'? Really, whether you find it true or not, the comment was unnecessary at least.

As for a more specific analysis of Bresson films. I don't particularly enjoy them any more, so I'm not likely to want to watch one again and then analyze it.

I certainly didn't find any of the things you mentioned to be ambiguous in the way you seem to see them.
I think they are straight forward.

But, like I said, I watched them in the past and I haven't any patience for them now.

Re: Paintings of St. Sebastien. Regardless of the painter's reason for painting the painting, it's pretty certain that they all contain the same, or nearly the same, meaning. (Especially considering that most of the content was rather codified.) I don't see how this is an apt metaphor for ambiguity in Bresson's films. In fact, if we are going this route, I'd agree that a Bresson film is like a painting of St. Sebastien, or any icon or religious painting, in that his films contain many images and references that are part of the 2000 year old Catholic tradition and Jansenism and discuss many of the same themes: innocence, it's frailty, the cruelty of the world toward innocence, the incorrigibility of this evil cruelty as well as the blind pre-destination that propels it all (Jansenism), etc; all which serve to make his films less ambiguous as they contain traditional cultural meaning.

Pax

[P. Wretch]

Unless, of course, you think that all diaries are best suited for 'pious bitching'? Really, whether you find it true or not, the comment was unnecessary at least.

That comment was clearly light-hearted. Surely there's enough special pleading for Catholic priests elsewhere at the moment without having to extend it to IHM.

Personally, although I admire Bresson's work on a formal level, it's the Catholic assumptions and undercurrents that ultimately prevent me from 'loving' it. I know there's a certain school of thought that argues that Christianity paradoxically acquires a radical, even subversive quality in an increasingly secular age, but I find that unconvincing.

I sometimes wonder whether the high tolerance for religion and mysticism amongst 'cinephiles' and film studies types is linked in to the desire for cinema to become a substitute religion in itself. This would be understandable, since film is arguably the most powerful and intoxicating visual art form yet invented, exceeding all of the icons and finery that the Church used to seduce its followers. (I'm not suggesting, by the way, that we should strenuously resist this impulse like stained-glass-smashing puritans.)

[leroysghost]

I suggest we all go and read the Georges Bernanos books (Journal, Mouchette..) on which these films are based.

why? they were made by different people in different mediums. a film based on a book can have the opposite meaning. if you have to be a Jansenist or read other sources to know what the point of a film is, doesn't that speak to the films openness?

Bresson not austere? Man, I can't think of anyone more so. Who's austere in cinema for you, LG?

Bresson is not austere to me because he created a style that's so different from the usual (and full of strangeness i might add: the kiss through the bars in Pickpocket, the kids from the gang looking through the alcoholics window in Balthazar, the fighting knights who stand in place while blood runs up a downwards pointing sword in Lancelot du Lac). Bresson also seems fond of suddenly confounding expectations (sudden crying or acts of violence, characters doing opposite things in the space of one cut).

i'd be the first to admit that Bergman can get pretty austere though (not that there is anything wrong with austerity).

[leroysghost]

The phrase 'pious bitching' isn't a general statement about diaries. 'what you would find in a priest's diary' seems to point to it being specifically about priests. Which would make knowing at least one or two priests perhaps a requisite for making a generalization? Unless, of course, you think that all diaries are best suited for 'pious bitching'? Really, whether you find it true or not, the comment was unnecessary at least.

it was a play on the word 'pious'. diaries are mostly just vehicles for bitching, and it's hard not to be pious when talking about oneself. turning events from such an unworthy source into heroism through the use of music and disease (a very touchy subject for me) is what i was objecting too, not priests.

it is true that i'm not a big fan of piousness in general, so maybe you should stop wantonly labeling people as bigots.

[ttg]

On another note.

It's actually Bresson's handling of his themes that makes his films (almost?) absurd, to me.

I think his cinematography is beautiful.

But the... clumsiness? of the ideas or maybe the way he presents them...

I may change my mind in a decade!

Pax

[leroysghost]

when asked who i thought was austere, how could i ever have forgotten Haneke. just compare L'Argent with Seventh Continent, 71 Fragments and Funny Games (i'd argue that the line of influence is pretty clear). even when using fragments Haneke lays out events in a mostly straightforward manner, but with L'Argent you really have to work to keep up with what is going on (and without subtitles it seemed even harder, there are key written plot points that looked almost illegible for the amount of time on the screen and their distance from the camera). Bresson even makes a joke at his own expense in L'Argent (there is a scene where there is a quick cut that at first seems contrary but turns out to be random)! that's not a very austere move at all.

[Dan Warburton]

Lancelot du Lac, 1974

Finally got around to this and bought the Artificial Eye DVD (good image and sound but no DVD bonuses ) - and really enjoyed it (though enjoying a Bresson isn't the same as enjoying a James Bond or a Sergio Leone..). Makes for an interesting contrast with Rohmer's heavily stylized Perceval le Gallois. You start out laughing, thinking of the Python "it's only a flesh wound" parody, but by the time you get to the final massacre in the woods you're not laughing anymore.
Good review here http://www.mastersofcinema.org/bresson/ ... orker.html , in which I read that, intriguingly, "Lancelot was originally the film Bresson hoped to make after Diary of a Country Priest (1951). Inevitably, however, he couldn't raise the proper funding; at one point he uncharacteristically considered casting professional actors Burt Lancaster and Natalie Wood in the film, though what kind of movie that would have resulted in is anybody's guess. Suffice it to say that the version Bresson did eventually make is firmly rooted within his stylistic world of nonprofessional "models," de-dramatized performances, and "cinematographic" style."
Rhythm and repetition. The sound design is bare bones - apart from the omnipresent clank of armour (you can hear these chaps coming from about a hundred yards away), the whinny of horses and the caw of the magpie (see above) are important markers.
Also from the above review, itself quoting from Notes on the Cinematographer:
""Model. Thrown into the physical action, his voice, starting from even syllables, takes on automatically the inflections and modulations proper to his true nature." And later: "Nothing is durable but what is caught up in rhythms. Bend content to form and sense to rhythms." This emphasis on rhythm propels Lancelot's visual and sound design to such an extent that the experience of watching the film can be virtually hypnotic."

[Dan Warburton]

Quatre nuits d'un rêveur, 1971

Has anyone else here seen this? If so, let's begin with a question - according to IMDb the film should last 87 minutes, but the rip I snatched lasts just 78 (and I've found one blog that mentions that ten minutes are missing, presumably from the version I seem to have acquired). Then again, two Youtube clips online purporting to be the last four minutes of the film do indeed finish where my rip does, with Jacques returning to his painting. I suppose then that the missing nine minutes or so come from (or rather were excised from) earlier in the film. Maybe when Marthe and her mother are discussing the lodger? (As her mum says practically nothing during the movie, this might make sense..) Anyway..
Seems there are, once more, rights issues preventing a decent quality release of this and Bresson's other Dostoyevsky adaptation Une femme douce. One text quoted over at KG points the finger at Bresson's widow (is she still alive?). But I seriously hope they're resolved before we all get much older, as I absolutely love this one and it's about time it was out there for a wider public to see - because it's fun. Not just fun, even funny - and if those are adjectives you don't normally associate with Bresson, all the more reason for you to hunt it down, even in its incomplete form.
This is Bresson "doing" Nouvelle Vague (in the same way he did Joan of Arc), complete with Jean-Pierre Léaud lookalike hero (and some of the dialogue Guillaume des Forêts spouts really wouldn't be out of place in La Maman et La Putain), de rigueur Bressonian Pre-Raphaelite virgin (Marthe, played by Isabelle Weingarten, who bears a rather striking resemblance to Françoise Lebrun in the Eustache), film within a film gangster movie (yes! Bresson does Scarface!), hippies with guitars and a samba band sailing up the Seine on a bateau mouche, Parisian café society by night ("let's go to the Drugstore" - and it's Marthe who hits the pastis while Jacques gets the sirop de menthe, haha), pinball machines, the whole works.
But the most striking resonance here is one looking forward in time – to Carax. Those lovers' walks on the banks of the Seine – Boy Meets Girl – and, of course, the fact that they meet every night on.. the Pont Neuf (and unlike Leos, Bresson actually managed to shoot on the fabled bridge)! I have no idea whether Quatre Nuits was widely available when Carax was learning the tools of the trade, but I'd be awfully surprised if he didn't know (and love) this.
Anyway, Bresson fans who haven't seen it should certainly try to do so. And in the meantime here's hoping that a decent print makes it to DVD or Blu-Ray before too long.

[Lao Tsu Ben]

Nice write-up, Dan, it rekindles some memories. Yep, I saw it a few years ago at La Cinématèque. I don't remember much of it, besides liking it. I think it was Isabelle Weingarten who was there, because someone was there to say a bit of trivia. Who else could it be? Bresson's widow? That wasn't her, that's the only thing I'm sure of. Anyway, I'm unable to answer your question, but, as you know now, it's up to the Cinémathèque's fancy to present the right version, which is quite impeccable in my memories. I'm waiting for such an occasion to see Une Femme Douce (though, I must say, I never pay attention to the "programme"- and I'm not in Paris at the moment). I don't know if you remember, but snatch, please, Les Amis by Gérard Blain on Kg, which is very bressonian, the soundtrack by François De Roubaix is similarly laidback, and the film is somewhat hearbreaking (it's also perfect, like Bresson, in the sense that all the shots seem fucking right- there aren't many films which give me that impression). I wonder how Bresson's adaptation of Dostoievsky compare to that of Visconti - but, and once again, that's how prejudiced I am (without a touch of jingoism), the Bresson's film, as you put it, is something special, and... it must be better!

[Dan Warburton]

Thanks for that Blain tip, Ben. It's joined an already long list of things to get

[Dan Warburton]

Quatre nuits d'un rêveur, 1971

Has anyone else here seen this? If so, let's begin with a question - according to IMDb the film should last 87 minutes, but the rip I snatched lasts just 78 (and I've found one blog that mentions that ten minutes are missing, presumably from the version I seem to have acquired). Then again, two Youtube clips online purporting to be the last four minutes of the film do indeed finish where my rip does, with Jacques returning to his painting. I suppose then that the missing nine minutes or so come from (or rather were excised from) earlier in the film. Maybe when Marthe and her mother are discussing the lodger? (As her mum says practically nothing during the movie, this might make sense..) Anyway..
Seems there are, once more, rights issues preventing a decent quality release of this and Bresson's other Dostoyevsky adaptation Une femme douce. One text quoted over at KG points the finger at Bresson's widow (is she still alive?). But I seriously hope they're resolved before we all get much older, as I absolutely love this one and it's about time it was out there for a wider public to see - because it's fun. Not just fun, even funny - and if those are adjectives you don't normally associate with Bresson, all the more reason for you to hunt it down, even in its incomplete form.
This is Bresson "doing" Nouvelle Vague (in the same way he did Joan of Arc), complete with Jean-Pierre Léaud lookalike hero (and some of the dialogue Guillaume des Forêts spouts really wouldn't be out of place in La Maman et La Putain), de rigueur Bressonian Pre-Raphaelite virgin (Marthe, played by Isabelle Weingarten, who bears a rather striking resemblance to Françoise Lebrun in the Eustache), film within a film gangster movie (yes! Bresson does Scarface!), hippies with guitars and a samba band sailing up the Seine on a bateau mouche, Parisian café society by night ("let's go to the Drugstore" - and it's Marthe who hits the pastis while Jacques gets the sirop de menthe, haha), pinball machines, the whole works.
But the most striking resonance here is one looking forward in time – to Carax. Those lovers' walks on the banks of the Seine – Boy Meets Girl – and, of course, the fact that they meet every night on.. the Pont Neuf (and unlike Leos, Bresson actually managed to shoot on the fabled bridge)! I have no idea whether Quatre Nuits was widely available when Carax was learning the tools of the trade, but I'd be awfully surprised if he didn't know (and love) this.
Anyway, Bresson fans who haven't seen it should certainly try to do so. And in the meantime here's hoping that a decent print makes it to DVD or Blu-Ray before too long.

Prayers answered - there seems to be a Japanese Blu-Ray and a decent 720 rip thereof is now up for grabs at KG. Fingers crossed they'll release Une femme douce too before too long. Oh, and to correct a silly remark above, Isabelle Weingarten does in fact appear in La maman et la putain, as Gilberte. D'oh.