jon abbey wrote:the Treatise isn't very good, the Tenney is.
Dan Warburton wrote:What makes a "good" or "bad" performance? I find the version on disc 7 of the AMPLIFY box pretty uninteresting.. but maybe Keith Rowe thinks it's OK. So, who's right?
jon abbey wrote:1) allegedly the entire score done in two hours and 2) simply not very interesting music, it sounds like that Chicago crew would sound just playing anything (as bedouin kind of points out, they did some other Hat Art discs around then, all reasonably similar sounding), and they're not especially interesting musicians IMO. I personally could care less about how faithful classical renditions are, I just care about the results (within the tiny, tiny area of classical music I care about).
Jesse wrote:If the Treatise discussion develops any further, it merits a dedicated thread.
The score is incredibly dense, and also 192 pages long. To play through the entire score in 2 hours would mean that each page was played through for less than a minute on average. Seems like pretty convincing evidence to say that there couldn't be much depth drawn from the score itself in a reading as such.Jesse wrote:I share Dan's curiosity about how you evaluate the fidelity of a work so open to "instant composition" as Treatise.
The Seven Guitars reading is only a small number of pages, and I think it succeeds for allowing a much greater focus on the complexities of the score, in this setting.
From my experience in the Treatise workshop with John Tilbury, he split a large ensemble (30 or so) into smaller groups and assigned small numbers of pages to the groups within the ensemble, to be combined in a more or less linear fashion during performance. However successful the performance was, this exercise was extraordinarily useful towards understanding a musical relationship to the score, as Cardew clearly wished to create a score with as much depth as traditionally notated score, dictating a stream of activity that is not just a two-dimensional left-right reading of graphics on a white page.
Cardew states in his introductory notes of the Treatise Handbook:
"The score must govern the music. It must have authority, and not merely be an arbitrary jumping-off point for improvisation, with no internal consistency."
"'An articulated network' describes better what I am working on. Not a discussion of (representing) objects. Work with your hands on the material (the netting); don't try and set up grammatical rules which you will only ignore in the next page."