Recycled from the you tube thread. This guy has to be seen to be believed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b98BJ36K ... ed&search=" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;
eh... jungle/drum'n'bass?
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user_2766
One thing to keep in mind is that many brilliant drummers took a look at early jungle and loved it but decided not to try to incorporate it into their own playing ... John McEntire was into it, the drummer from Soul Coughing was an early convert, and scores of others looked but ultimately left it alone ... those are names that IHMers may scorn, but they were strong players who understood jungle's appeal immediately ...JF wrote:Squarepusher brings me to an aspect I'm interested in (and what brings me definitely to "genre-mixing", as I start to figure out after having heard many samples) - having mixed "hardcore-dnb" with instrumental playing.
Or even the whole thing approached from the other side: ensembles playing with the rhythmic stringency of jungle - and I don't mean fast fusion or something, but clearly electronica/breakbeat-inspired playing.
If I remember right, E.S.T. has moments of that, and I can imagine there are many hip modern jazz bands approaching things like that. But no... then again I'm looking for much more energetic stuff, coming more from the free jazz/improv/noise-direction (if something like that exists).
Jungle is not easy to replicate on a drum kit, which is (A) one of the reasons 'live' drummers don't attempt to incorporate its influence much and (b) one of its fundamental appeals in the first place: jungle's a futuroid music made from some of the most organic music imaginable (sampled drum breaks from classic funk players) - trying to blend jungle and 'energetic jazzier' music can lead to superficial and obnoxious results. (KJ Sawka's footage always appears on jungle message boards but you don't hear his tracks played anywhere.)
KJ Sawka's playing is beautifully tight, but his music gives me mixed feelings.
It's interesting to read about Spring Heeled Jack, since I recognised that name earlier as a project Bennink participated in.
Aaaand - Bennink actually is the starting point which led me to try out sequencer-driven "hardcore-jungle"-stuff.
It's interesting to read about Spring Heeled Jack, since I recognised that name earlier as a project Bennink participated in.
Aaaand - Bennink actually is the starting point which led me to try out sequencer-driven "hardcore-jungle"-stuff.
well, johnny herndon (another tortoise dude) did some d'n'b stuff as a grape dope and the godspeed drummer aidan does break-ish stuff as one speed bike. so there are still jazz/indie/rock drummers who spend some extra time in electronic music.
not that they are high on the recommendation list, but if you're looking for a drummers crossing over, there are a couple examples.
m
edit: and just a ref for spring heel jack, they'd pretty much abandoned beatmaking before bennink got involved.
not that they are high on the recommendation list, but if you're looking for a drummers crossing over, there are a couple examples.
m
edit: and just a ref for spring heel jack, they'd pretty much abandoned beatmaking before bennink got involved.
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Richard Pinnell
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Probably the best example of an indie/rock musician making drum 'n bass music could be Graham Sutton, (Bark Psychosis) whose Boymerang project was pretty vibrant five years or so back.
What I used to enjoy about DnB was its facelessness however, the fact you could listen to a London pirate station for an hour without ever being told who any of the tracks were by. It wasn't really important, the white label culture revolved around the music, not the bragging and bravado of rap or more recently to a lesser extent Grime. I liked that feature about it, wouldn't happen in these days of myspace either.
I struggled to ever listen to more than an hour or so in one sitting however, as without drugs an entire genre that is essentially based on one single drum sample doesn't hold my attention for long. Its interesting that this is where Derek Bailey's DnB album came from also, when he would sit in his flat playing along with a pirate station for his amusement before the idea for the album came about.
What I used to enjoy about DnB was its facelessness however, the fact you could listen to a London pirate station for an hour without ever being told who any of the tracks were by. It wasn't really important, the white label culture revolved around the music, not the bragging and bravado of rap or more recently to a lesser extent Grime. I liked that feature about it, wouldn't happen in these days of myspace either.
I struggled to ever listen to more than an hour or so in one sitting however, as without drugs an entire genre that is essentially based on one single drum sample doesn't hold my attention for long. Its interesting that this is where Derek Bailey's DnB album came from also, when he would sit in his flat playing along with a pirate station for his amusement before the idea for the album came about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4auW8F8mQEmudd wrote:drummers crossing over
great drumming, shame about the rest of it.free math wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4auW8F8mQE
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user_2766
Drummers working in "electronic music," sure, there must be thousands, millions. Old jungle influences visible today, not so much. Maybe I'm wrong. Optical and Ed Rush were going back to tour with 'real' instruments recently, I heard - god that must have been horrible. 'Course dnb outfit/label owners London Elektricity still use a live drummer I believe. There's probably countless people to mention if the context is crossover or boundary crossing between drummers and dnb. The best example for my money these days, and someone the thread starter should listen to asap, is Macc, a London dnb producer who is a drummer himself, a trumpeter, and a hardcore jazz fan... he doesn't even listen to dnb, and he certainly doesn't employ the tropes modern day dnb relies upon ... and the guy's musical literacy, and musicality, are through the roof ... I heard what I thought was a sample from Poeme Electronique in one of his unreleased tunes and asked him about it, he said yes indeed. Anyway, anything by Macc, especially the stuff on Outsider, Breakin' and Transmute, I'd highly recommend!mudd wrote:well, johnny herndon (another tortoise dude) did some d'n'b stuff as a grape dope and the godspeed drummer aidan does break-ish stuff as one speed bike. so there are still jazz/indie/rock drummers who spend some extra time in electronic music.
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user_2766
Was it dub trio? Tomino's known for doing the delay effects both manually and with pedals, depending. Interesting player, good call Faster.Faster wrote:years ago, 2001, shared a bill with a band with a pretty sick drummer, Joe Tomino. He did a lot of jungle-type moves, even imitating a decaying echo. I wasn't much into the band, but Joe was pretty fun to watch.
It wasn't dub trio. Just googled: the band was called "birth," and the few times I heard him he didn't use any pedals (the sax player did, though). Very nice guys. The bassist even put us up in Cleveland.ubuf wrote:Was it dub trio? Tomino's known for doing the delay effects both manually and with pedals, depending. Interesting player, good call Faster.Faster wrote:years ago, 2001, shared a bill with a band with a pretty sick drummer, Joe Tomino. He did a lot of jungle-type moves, even imitating a decaying echo. I wasn't much into the band, but Joe was pretty fun to watch.
You, of all people, should understand
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user_3245
Hmm,
I would second the Boymerang recommendation. If you like that maybe check Photeks 'Modus Operandi' - still like it very much.
As for other artists: I never really cared much about the "crossover" tries in Jungle/ D'n'B - i think a raw and energetic feeling is best captured in early D'n'B: maybe try early Reinforced Records, or early Metalheadz. Listening to it right now and I'm quite enjoying it.
Stephen
I would second the Boymerang recommendation. If you like that maybe check Photeks 'Modus Operandi' - still like it very much.
As for other artists: I never really cared much about the "crossover" tries in Jungle/ D'n'B - i think a raw and energetic feeling is best captured in early D'n'B: maybe try early Reinforced Records, or early Metalheadz. Listening to it right now and I'm quite enjoying it.
Stephen
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Richard Pinnell
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There have been many attempts to link drum 'n bass to jazz forms. The end result is usually a watered own version of both genres only really suitable for playing quietly in trendy pizza restaurants...
One attempt that was pretty good was the early fusion related material by Roni Size's Reprazent group. The album New Forms was pretty good and explored some interesting areas until it did really well in the Mercury Music Prize and they predictably fell apart.
I'll second the recommendation for early Metalheadz stuff, add a mention for the early 4Hero material (not the later albums when they sound like a bad Bush of Ghosts covers band) and suggest steering clear of Pendulum, a currently hip Australian group who insist on using the most annoying synth sounds.
One attempt that was pretty good was the early fusion related material by Roni Size's Reprazent group. The album New Forms was pretty good and explored some interesting areas until it did really well in the Mercury Music Prize and they predictably fell apart.
I'll second the recommendation for early Metalheadz stuff, add a mention for the early 4Hero material (not the later albums when they sound like a bad Bush of Ghosts covers band) and suggest steering clear of Pendulum, a currently hip Australian group who insist on using the most annoying synth sounds.
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user_801
Couldn't agree more. As far as straight up jungle/dnb its best when the only trickery employed is in the breaks. Crazy breaks, heavy simple basslines and a sparse splattering of samples. For me the genre was at its best in the early nineties. No one has mentioned Remarc, and his cohorts on the Suburban Base label, also the Kemet lot. Then a bit later the early Hard Leaders releases (Decoder's The Fog), very early Dillinja and also Optical's solo stuff before he teamed up with Ed Rush are all worth checking. After which, if you ask me, money, fame and a click of controlling honchos pretty much ruined the scene, and outlawed the innovators in favour of homogenous predictability.Richard Pinnell wrote:There have been many attempts to link drum 'n bass to jazz forms. The end result is usually a watered own version of both genres only really suitable for playing quietly in trendy pizza restaurants...
This is a genre I love but know very little about (mainly, I think, due to the point made above about it being a very anonymous genre).
At the moment, I'm really getting into the breakcore/grindcore cross-over from folk like Bong-Ra and Drumcorps (the Drumcorps record being of note as the guy plays his own guitar riffs and doesn't just sample Slayer). End User's recent albums have been pretty sweet too, especially the track that lifts a Bjork vocal onto blistering breaks.
The DnB/Jazz crossover is much maligned as being solely for trendy lifestyle bars but there's still some very nice stuff from people like Lamb and even Saltillo. I never thought much to the Reprazent stuff, myself. Seemed very clinical to me.
On a related note, I really like the place where hard ragga/dancehall moves into DnB. Ladybug's (essentially The Bug with female vocalists, Warrior Queen in this example) "Dem a bom we" is a storming track. It's interesting, and heartening, to hear such a politically fired record in a genre that often seems hellbent on becoming as misogynistic and homophobic as possible.
At the moment, I'm really getting into the breakcore/grindcore cross-over from folk like Bong-Ra and Drumcorps (the Drumcorps record being of note as the guy plays his own guitar riffs and doesn't just sample Slayer). End User's recent albums have been pretty sweet too, especially the track that lifts a Bjork vocal onto blistering breaks.
The DnB/Jazz crossover is much maligned as being solely for trendy lifestyle bars but there's still some very nice stuff from people like Lamb and even Saltillo. I never thought much to the Reprazent stuff, myself. Seemed very clinical to me.
On a related note, I really like the place where hard ragga/dancehall moves into DnB. Ladybug's (essentially The Bug with female vocalists, Warrior Queen in this example) "Dem a bom we" is a storming track. It's interesting, and heartening, to hear such a politically fired record in a genre that often seems hellbent on becoming as misogynistic and homophobic as possible.
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user_125
apart from Rotator, and some of the other Peace Off related stuff (Cardopusher, Electric Kettle, etc), there hasn't been a huge amount of really amazing breakcore stuff this year. but this thread isn't really about what's the latest in breakcore.
i was listening to a lot of old d'n'b this year (old reinforced and moving shadow, SHJ, panacea etc) but now i'm all about italo-disco and early Material and stuff... so i'm just kind of all about early '80s funky synth-disco now. maybe i should start an italo thread?
i was listening to a lot of old d'n'b this year (old reinforced and moving shadow, SHJ, panacea etc) but now i'm all about italo-disco and early Material and stuff... so i'm just kind of all about early '80s funky synth-disco now. maybe i should start an italo thread?
