ihatemusic

hey,

my first post here and i would like to say 'hey' to everyone!!

also, some advice on choosing a microphone setup from ye experienced folks.

so i am starting a piece of music using solely found Acoustic Objects as source material, things like Stones, Kindling, Metal, Styrofoam, Plastic, etc (you get the idea) and i am within the whirlwind of vast microphone options...

anyone have any recommendations towards quality mics which would be happy within this 'soundworld'

like everyone, price is an issue but i will avoid putting a figure on it as i would like to hear your experiences/recommendations free from price (both lowend and highend are kool)

cheers everyone!

Boring suggestion, the Røde NT-1.
It's good price for its quality, quiet and has a nice dynamic range.
I don't have much experience, but if I was confused about what to get, someone would probably be talking me into getting an NT1.

the NT-1 isn't a bad idea on a budget. Wide diaphragms are nice. In that particular niche, I really like the way Sennheiser's MD 421-II does the job and it's even a dynamic mic so you avoid the potential hassle of needing phantom power.

I'm also slowly becoming a big fan of recording that kind of stuff with omnis to let the sound of the objects just sit really smoothly in its environment rather than isolate it by any kind of focused mic placement studio trickery. But I don't have any special mic model to recommend at the moment.

I use DPA mics for music, and think they're really good for recordings of unconventional acoustic phenomena + unconventional techniques on acoustic instruments. They're certainly not cheap, but will last you a lifetime.
4011 - cardiod, 4016 - wide cardiod (I particularly like these), and 4006 - omnis (which are great if you're in a genuinely quiet space, but otherwise can bring problems):
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/produc ... tegory=113
The Schoeps equivalents are also very good, but even more expensive. My feeling is that Schoeps are designed with more conventional music in mind (so are "warmer" than DPA's etc), but this may just be prejudice because I decided to invest in DPA's. There's certainly a lot of bullshit spoken about supposed minutiae of differences beween top-end microphones on webforums such as Gearslutz, but it may be worth looking for feedback from other people there.
Best thing is test a couple out when you've done a bit of research. Your local DPA / Schoeps / Rode dealer should have something they'll lend out to you if you're a potential future customer. And then trust your ears rather than what other people have recommended.

Simon, I'm with you on the Schoeps question. I've gotten to borrow some schoeps condensers from WKCR to record things from time to time. Never found them so distinctly impressive in this area of music. I honestly preferred the character of my Oktavas. (or at least two of the three I own, one of them that I bought later has a much duller quality for some reason....)

Never tried DPA mics, something new to research!

FWIW, on this general microphone topic, my current favorite condensers as a set-up & leave-em stereo room pair when I play concerts are actually Beyerdynamic MC-930s. Really crisp to my ears and their bass response blows my mind.

hey,

thanks for the informed replies, of course i do agree that ultimately my ears are the truest guides, but i greatly appreciate your input. their ain't no way that any of the dealers here would let me walk out with a test set of DPA's, then again i couldn't justify 4-5 grand on a set of microphones anyway, but i bet they are f*ckin amazing!
The MC-930's are probably at the top of my imposed budget..
anyone familiar with the Sonic Studios microphones?

cheers again,

If you end up going with omnis, you may want to consider a jecklin disc or something to help establish stereo definition.

Thanks for mentioning that Joe. Very good advice that I neglected to include when I brought up omnis.

do preamps deserve mention here? (asking from inexperience)

Yep.

Yes, preamps are worth discussing. But I think that, starting out, it's really most important to just work with a computer audio interface (or 4-track or whatever) that's got good-enough built in preamps rather than getting better additional ones and recording direct lines from those into the box.... You can step toward that later when you have a better sense of what you want things to sound like.

hey,

i am of the belief that pre's are very important indeed. ultimately one wants to have a recording setup which accurately captures the sonic character of whatever sound source is been stimulated/simulated, whether a fine grand piano costing tens of thousands of quid or a homebrew oscillator costing 2 euro to build, neither should be victim of a shitty pre/mic final stage.
currently i am working on revising my set-up, i work within the harsher side of the spectrum and for 'ethical' reasons love building my own equipment or , even better, finding it on the street!! if i want lovely hiss i build a crappy pre for coloration. my instrument setup costs well under $100.

anyway i just bought a Studio Projects VTB1 preamp (for input stage) and cant wait to test it out with my amplified board, anyone use a vtb1?

also, looking at the Rode NT2-A. i have read gushing reviews and insulting ones too, it has an amazingly low noise floor which appeals and of course 3X polar pattern. anyone here use one ?

sihen wrote:ultimately one wants to have a recording setup which accurately captures the sonic character of whatever sound source is been stimulated/simulated

I would say that this point is pretty debatable.

Just in case someone is interested in the DIY way, this omni capsules have a very flat response and can be easily adapted to a Jecklin disk. A friend of mine soldered two of them and I used to amplify a couple instruments live (Viola da Gamba and Hurdy-Gurdy on a folk music concert) and they sounded very natural. They need 5 V to work, but many portable recorders and video cameras have adequate inputs for them.

Also, speaking of Jecklin disc, this article is very infromative.

RFKorp wrote:

sihen wrote:ultimately one wants to have a recording setup which accurately captures the sonic character of whatever sound source is been stimulated/simulated

I would say that this point is pretty debatable.

Agreed. I'd recommend using contact mics in addition to whatever air mic you choose. You can get some really interesting and surprisingly different sounds when you start contact micing things. Also try running a contact mic through a DI. If you can get a hold of a Radial DI, those sound awesome. The non-Jensen tranny ones have Taiwanese transformers, and they can put out some serious low end, makes a piece of sheet metal sound 10x bigger than it actually is. The Jensens have a more balanced frequency spectrum and are also really cool. You'd have to use a pre for this kind of setup, but a small mixer should be just fine.

I love omnis. I use the DPA 4060s all the time. They've got these beautiful highs but also have this very subtle but unusual grit on the bottom. Maybe that's just me imagining things, but they do something special. I also love the Earthworks QTC-1, which is an omnidirectional testing mic with a super flat frequency response. It's a lot more expensive than the DPA, and it's a lot smoother especially on the bottom. I don't think any mic captures exactly the way you hear, but this pretty close and makes just about everything sound good without having to EQ. There's also the Shure KSM44, which does cartioid, figure 8 and omni. It's definitely a darker mic, and it does sound better in omni, but I don't usually like what it does to the highs.

One other thing you should try is mixing mics. Use some omni plus a contact mic, then you can figure out what frequencies of either you like and EQ accordingly. That is, if you're not necessarily going for realism.

As for good-quality pres on a budget, I'm a big fan of Seventh Circle Audio. They have DIY kits for Neve, Api, Jensen, etc.-based pres. The instructions are really well put together, and if you've done some DIY projects before, you should be able to put one pre together in a couple of days or so.

Hope this helps!

don't buy an expensive mic. save your money and get a good preamp and compressor.

as far as cheap mics go, the NT-1 gets recommended frequently, and i purchased one used for $120 a while back. i've been pleased with it, but i'd recommend it only as a room mic and not for close up recording. it has a great bottom-end, but the top-end is rather brittle. so yeah, probably it wouldn't be good for your application.


in the same price range i suggest the MXL v88. it's a far better mic than the NT-1, and also includes a shock-mount (the NT-1 does not). $199.





buy a sweet pre-amp. the Golden Age Pre-73 is top notch. $299.





lastly, get a compressor. a 4-channel compressor is nice: one channel for your mic, two for your main mix, and an extra one for playing partners. on a budget, i recommend the Samson S-com 4. ~$120.




if you opt to go with a fancier mic, you can still get a pretty nice pre-amp/compressor setup by going with a channel strip instead of separate gear. the Joemeek ThreeQ is cool. $299.




or the Focusrite TrakMaster Pro. $250.

sihen wrote:anyway i just bought a Studio Projects VTB1 preamp (for input stage) and cant wait to test it out with my amplified board, anyone use a vtb1?

ahh, just noticed you got a pre-amp already. i've never tried any studio projects stuff, but they get good reviews, so i suspect it'll do the job.

I had another thought this morning. I'm a big fan of omnis like some others who have posted, and since you're on a budget (who isnt?), you might also want to check out Avenson Audio. They make an affordable omni pair, which is about the same price as one DPA 4060. I haven't personally heard these, but I hear that they use the same Panasonic element as those found in the DPAs and Earthworks (don't quote me on that). That does not necessarily mean they sound the same, but if I was looking for a bang-for-the buck omni pair, I'd seriously consider at least demoing these. Avenson's whole deal is making gear that engineers always need but making them affordable.

@ Mercenary Audio:
http://www.mercenary.com/sto2microphone.html