Rank Good Director's Films in Order of Goodness

[jon abbey]

Anyway, the original idea is pretty daft - how do you pick the worst Kubrick? Comes down to simple personal preference, and I appreciate Leroys for expressing his.

actually I think it's a pretty interesting idea, and the posts following my post are decidedly more worthwhile than just naming one and saying "all others suck". really, Taxi Driver is beneath mention? there's revisionist history, which as you know I'm all for, and then there's just throwing rocks for the sake of throwing them. we try to maintain a higher standard than that here, as you're well aware, and your snide response is pretty unnecessary.

as for worst Kubrick? I have no great love for most of them, but it is a tough call. I'll go with the vapid 2001, I think.

[jon abbey]

and what makes it more interesting is the context. you can look at someone else's list, decide how their taste matches up with your own, and maybe figure out which film to see next from that director, or which to revisit because someone with similar taste ranked it more highly than you would.

[jon abbey]

I'll take a shot at updating my 5 year old Fassbinder list from early on in this thread, as I've seen many more in the interim:

Berlin Alexanderplatz (without the epilogue)
Ali: Fear Eats The Soul
In A Year of 13 Moons
Marriage of Maria Braun
Fox and His Friends
Martha
Bitter Tears of Petra Van Kant
The Merchant of Four Seasons
Katzelmacher
The Third Generation
Mother Küsters Goes to Heaven
The Stationmaster's Wife
Veronika Voss
Lola
Effi Briest
Fear of Fear
Chinese Roulette
Berlin Alexanderplatz (the epilogue)
Why Does Herr R. Run Amok?
Beware of a Holy Whore

these rankings could change in the future as I see these again, and I do think Fassbinder would appreciate that I put his own single favorite film of his dead last (Beware of a Holy Whore). there's a handful I'm still missing there also.

[Dan Warburton]

Actually you're right Jon, it is quite interesting after all Like your Fassbinder list, but wouldn't dare to do one of my own just yet, still working slowly but steadily through the 4 box sets. But I think I'd put Veronika Voss a bit higher up than you did.

[jcg]

Jean Vigo: easy enough given his small (but immense) filmography

L'Atalante
Zéro de Conduite
La Natation par Jean Taris
A Propos de Nice

[Dan Warburton]

haha that was EASY
like to see you do JEAN RENOIR now

[jrip]

Hitchcock:

01.Vertigo
02. North By Northwest
03. Rear Window
04. Shadow of a Doubt
05. Psycho
06. Marnie
07. Frenzy
08. 39 Steps
09. The Trouble With Harry
10. The Birds
11. Rope
12. Dial 'M' for Murder
13. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956)
14. Strangers On A Train
15. Family Plot
16. Foreign Correspondent
17. Spellbound
18. To Catch A Thief
19. Suspicion
20. Rebecca
21. The Lady Vanishes
22. Saboteur
23. Torn Curtain
24. The Paradine Case
25. Sabotage
26. Topaz

[jcg]

[/quote]

haha that was EASY
like to see you do JEAN RENOIR now

The thing is I can't find a lot of directors of which I've seen all (or at least a substantial part) of their output. Renoir for example I've seen only a couple of films.

OK I'll try with Bruno Dumont now...

L'Humanité
La Vie de Jésus
Flandres

Haven't seen Twentynine Palms

Latest Dumont (called Hadewijch) is supposedly due this year

[Dan Warburton]

Hitchcock:

01.Vertigo
02. North By Northwest
03. Rear Window
04. Shadow of a Doubt
05. Psycho
06. Marnie
07. Frenzy
08. 39 Steps
09. The Trouble With Harry
10. The Birds
11. Rope
12. Dial 'M' for Murder
13. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956)
14. Strangers On A Train
15. Family Plot
16. Foreign Correspondent
17. Spellbound
18. To Catch A Thief
19. Suspicion
20. Rebecca
21. The Lady Vanishes
22. Saboteur
23. Torn Curtain
24. The Paradine Case
25. Sabotage
26. Topaz

Wow, nice job - but where's Notorious? Lifeboat? And I'm very fond of The Wrong Man and I Confess - have you seen those? I wouldn't put Saboteur above Sabotage (I think Sabotage is one of his best early ones - the scene with the carving knife is awesome, and the tension before the bomb goes off terrific.. on the other hand, Saboteur runs out of steam a bit, I think. Though the Statue of Liberty dangle is good - and the opening shot of the film wonderful. The first version of Man Who Knew Too Much with Peter Lorre is fun too..
Trouble With Harry is a real oddball - I guess you're a Hitchophile to rate it so highly (so I guess you know the ones I mentioned above). Stage Fright works better as a comedy, I think, with some splendid Alastair Sim scenes.

[leroysghost]

actually I think it's a pretty interesting idea, and the posts following my post are decidedly more worthwhile than just naming one and saying "all others suck". really, Taxi Driver is beneath mention? there's revisionist history, which as you know I'm all for, and then there's just throwing rocks for the sake of throwing them.

i was attempting to spark conversation, not just throw rocks.

it's true that i get nothing out of Taxi Driver or most Scorsese (many of which have the same elements of his other movies, only a few take it to a higher level), but also Rolling Thunder is just a better version of the same movie

as for worst Kubrick? I have no great love for most of them, but it is a tough call. I'll go with the vapid 2001, I think.

2001 is no prize but Lolita is excruciating and The Shining is awkward and hopelessly old fashioned

[surfer]

Yeah, the problem for me is that unless I've seen 80% or more of a director's output, I dont feel like I can make a list. I do like jrip's Hitchcock list, but I'd put the top few as:

1. Vertigo
2. Rear Window
3. North By Northwest
4. Notorious
5. Psycho
6. Rope

[leroysghost]

Hitchcock:

01.Vertigo
02. North By Northwest
03. Rear Window
04. Shadow of a Doubt
05. Psycho
06. Marnie
07. Frenzy
08. 39 Steps
09. The Trouble With Harry
10. The Birds
11. Rope
12. Dial 'M' for Murder
13. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956)
14. Strangers On A Train
15. Family Plot
16. Foreign Correspondent
17. Spellbound
18. To Catch A Thief
19. Suspicion
20. Rebecca
21. The Lady Vanishes
22. Saboteur
23. Torn Curtain
24. The Paradine Case
25. Sabotage
26. Topaz

Wow, nice job - but where's Notorious? Lifeboat? And I'm very fond of The Wrong Man and I Confess - have you seen those? I wouldn't put Saboteur above Sabotage (I think Sabotage is one of his best early ones - the scene with the carving knife is awesome, and the tension before the bomb goes off terrific.. on the other hand, Saboteur runs out of steam a bit, I think. Though the Statue of Liberty dangle is good - and the opening shot of the film wonderful. The first version of Man Who Knew Too Much with Peter Lorre is fun too..
Trouble With Harry is a real oddball - I guess you're a Hitchophile to rate it so highly (so I guess you know the ones I mentioned above). Stage Fright works better as a comedy, I think, with some splendid Alastair Sim scenes.

Hitchcock:

01. The Birds
02. Vertigo
03. Dial M For Murder
04. The Trouble With Harry
05. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1934)
06. Rope
07. Rear Window
08. The Wrong Man
09. The 39 Steps
10. Strangers On A Train
11. Rebecca
12. I Confess
13. Blackmail (Silent)
14. Number Seventeen/Listen, Listen ... !
15. Marnie
16. North By Northwest
17. The Lady Vanishes
18. Shadow Of A Doubt
19. Notorious

these are all pretty much equally great, and you could spend all day rearranging them according to different criteria

the rest i have problems with

i have seen all of the ones mentioned above as well as much of his earlier work and while most of them have a few amazing scenes, they are just not in the same league (Spellbound is the only one i find to be totally worthless)

[surfer]

kubrick

1. 2001
2. Dr. Strangelove
3. Eyes Wide Shut
4. Clockwork Orange
5. Full Metal Jacket
6. Lolita
7. The Shining
8. Barry Lyndon

Not seen: Paths of Glory, The Killing

I'm going to defend 2001 against these Brutuses. In terms of pure cinema, that is, a melding of image and sound in a way that does not ape literature by chaining itself to traditional narrative arcs and characters and storylines, 2001 could be one of the greatest achievements in film. Like Double Life of Veronique, Last Year At Marienbad, and some of Kar Wai Wong's movies (2046), its critics have attacked it as shallow, vapid, boring, or pretentious. But I find the symbols and moments and images and sound in these movies to be on average more moving than your typical script, because they and their director's vision aim for something "purer", perhaps.

[franz bieberkopf]

hopelessly old fashioned

meaning what exactly?

[leroysghost]

"purer" like MTV?

substance is always important, even if it isn't the main concern, and Arthur C. Clarke fails in this department

[leroysghost]

hopelessly old fashioned

meaning what exactly?

the points that the movie treats as revelatory seemed very matter of fact and obvious to me

[surfer]

"purer" like MTV?

substance is always important, even if it isn't the main concern, and Arthur C. Clarke fails in this department

No smartass, not like MTV.

You may take issue with my use of the word "pure", but at least I tried to explain what I meant. Your use of the word "substance", which you conveniently fail to explain, leaves me confused. Again.

Why dont you try another drive-by blast, leroy?

[leroysghost]

You may take issue with my use of the word "pure", but at least I tried to explain what I meant. Your use of the word "substance", which you conveniently fail to explain, leaves me confused. Again.

Why dont you try another drive-by blast, leroy?

explaining things in depth right off the bat doesn't appear to be my forte, sorry

nothing wrong with your use of "pure" but the way i see it is Kubrick using long winded music videos to make up for the lack of good story, which i think is what i meant by "substance"

[leroysghost]

In terms of pure cinema, that is, a melding of image and sound in a way that does not ape literature by chaining itself to traditional narrative arcs and characters and storylines.

its critics have attacked it as shallow, vapid, boring, or pretentious. But I find the symbols and moments and images and sound in these movies to be on average more moving than your typical script, because they and their director's vision aim for something "purer", perhaps.

after giving this more thought, i find that Harmony Korine films succeed in this vein

maybe my problem with 2001 is just the lame sixties-ness of the ideas (a robot that ruthlessly carries out it's prime directives but is suddenly turned human just to make it's "death" sympathetic, the cheap psychedelia of the ending etc.)

[Jesse]

leroysghost