i actually enjoy the formula aspect of tarantino's movies. the more one has to think about them, the more disappointing or questionable aspects arise (see anastasia post above). but thinking about them as little as necessary can be great fun.
m
Death Proof
Moderator: surfer
-
anastasia vronski
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:20 am
Re: Death Proof
Hello as my english is not good enough and i don't handle well the quotes system here , will you excuse me to post a long article that explains better i could write what I feel . Surfing on the web I was happy tio see I'm not the only one !
I like nostalgia but Quentin Tarantino is paying homage to people or movies I know knothing about parody I therefore cannot enjoy like you . I bet it's much less funny and enjoyable if you havent that cultural background.
Kira Cochrane in the Guardian sept 07 speaks for me:
....(She talks about other movies but I left it so you can follow her thinking)
Horror films have, of course, always been full of nasty, misanthropic imagery. In many other films, extreme, sexualised violence against women has frequently been a theme (Clockwork Orange, Boxing Helena and many others spring to mind). But recently the levels of horrific violence on show at the multiplexes - and the sheer cynicism of the films involved - have gone through the roof. And a lot of the most nasty, unrepentant and terrifyingly pointless violence is aimed at women. At least Clockwork Orange had a political point to make. (There can be no excuses for Boxing Helena.)
In most of these films, both men and women end up being sliced, gored, dismembered, decapitated. In that sense they offer audiences equal-opportunity gore. But it's the violence against women that's most troubling, because it is here that sex and extreme violence collide....(on other movies)..
The publicity campaigns for many of these films flag up the prospect of watching a nubile young woman being tortured as a genuinely pleasurable experience. So, for instance, a recent US billboard campaign for the upcoming (mainstream) film Captivity featured the film's star Elisha Cuthbert (just voted the 10th sexiest woman in the world by the young male readers of FHM magazine) in a series of four photographs. In the first (labelled ABDUCTION) a black-gloved hand covers her mouth. The second (CONFINEMENT) shows her, with bloody fingers, struggling to get out of a cage. The third (TORTURE) has her face encased in an odd white mask, tubes shoved up her nose, and apparently filled with blood. Finally, under the word TERMINATION, she is shown laid out, apparently dead.
The billboard attracted a barrage of complaints, with Jill Soloway (one of the writers of Six Feet Under) leading a campaign against it - the poster was soon taken down. In a piece on the Huffington Post website, Soloway wrote that the images were "the most repulsive, horrifying, woman-hating, human-hating thing I have ever seen in public" and didn't just represent "horror, this wasn't just misogyny ... It was a grody combo platter of the two, the torture almost a punishment for the sexiness. It had come from such a despicable inhuman hatred place that it somehow managed to recall Abu Ghraib, the Holocaust, porn and snuff films all at once." Joss Whedon, creator of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series, agreed, writing in a letter to the MPAA, the US ratings board, that the ad campaign "is not only a literal sign of the collapse of humanity, it's an assault ... this ad is part of a cycle of violence and misogyny that takes something away from the people who have to see it. It's like being mugged."
TARANTINO begins here:
Many of today's torture porn films are being made on tiny budgets by little-known directors, but with the release of the new Tarantino/Rodriguez double-bill, Grindhouse - designed as a tribute to the ultra-violent B-movie programmes of old - the trend officially reaches the mainstream. Made up of two films plus a clutch of trailers for non-existent movies, Grindhouse bombed when it was released in the US last month. American audiences were said to have been put off by the three-hour running time, and last week it was announced that Grindhouse will be released in a different format in the UK, the two films sold as separate features. Whether either film is any good is still up for debate - I, for one, found them both suicidally boring. What isn't in question is the disturbing attitude towards women in these films.
First on the programme is Robert Rodriguez's Planet Terror, a repetitively gory, gloomily depressing zombie picture, which opens with Rose McGowan pole dancing. There are close ups of her bottom and breasts in those initial scenes, and then she appears to be kissing another woman. In a feature about Grindhouse in Rolling Stone last month, Rodriguez noted that, "When we started talking about the movie, Quentin said, 'There should always be a lesbian kiss just around the corner - possibly.' I took that to heart, and in my very first scene, I have two female tongues going at each other and licking. You find out that it's Rose licking a mirror, but it gets across the idea that it could be around the corner at any time."
So far, so predictable. It isn't surprising that the film's main female character is a go-go dancer - Rodriguez is, after all, the director who made Sin City, in which the female characters ran the gamut from prostitutes to strippers. But having established McGowan's sexiness, in Planet Terror, the attacks on her begin. First a zombie rips off McGowan's leg, and then Tarantino (playing a zombie soldier called Rapist Number One) holds a gun to her head, before threatening her with rape. You can currently buy a Rapist Number One action figure online for your kids, should you so wish.
Then there's Tarantino's Death Proof, in which Kurt Russell stars as Stuntman Mike, a guy who gets his kicks from stalking groups of gorgeous young women, following them in his car and ramming whatever vehicle they happen to be travelling in, until they are dead. Severed limbs and bloodied faces abound. Interestingly, of all the women actors in Grindhouse, McGowan is the only one to appear in both films, and, while she survives Planet Terror (fitting the age-old horror archetype of the "final girl" who persists to the end - usually, it seems, to help justify the misogyny that has gone before) this triumph is short-lived. In Death Proof, McGowan's character is swiftly - gruesomely - dispatched. (In that same Rolling Stone feature, McGowan talked about her own attitude towards today's horror films, saying that, "all they do now is think about ways to torture women, primarily. I don't really get that. What is this, a manual for young, budding serial killers? Can't we just go watch Pillow Talk?")
Some of the nastiest images in Grindhouse arise in the fake trailers. Rob Zombie, director of The Devil's Rejects, creates one for a dream project - Werewolf Women of the SS - which includes the image of a topless woman, bound and gagged, being tortured by cartoonish Nazi soldiers. And Eli Roth - him again! - packs a host of sex and gore into his three-minute trailer for a potential film called Thanksgiving, including an image of a cheerleader peeling off her clothes while bouncing on a trampoline, before apparently being impaled with a large, gleaming knife - through the vagina, no less. (Horrifying though this is, it isn't actually original - the 2005 film Chaos showed a woman being anally raped with a knife.)
Unsurprisingly, the cheerleader scene in Grindhouse attracted some attention from the MPAA, the US ratings board, and Roth was forced to change it, to make the imagery much more suggestive than explicit. Addressing this at the American press junket for Grindhouse, he commented that "when I shot that trailer for Thanksgiving, I really thought there was no problem with anything - it just shows you how genuinely out of touch I am! I was like ... a full frontal labial shot, to camera, of a girl landing on a knife seemed like no problem to me ..."
Of course, maybe Roth's just trying to be funny - his tone is gleeful throughout this interview (a transcript and audio version of which can be found on a number of film websites). Later in the interview he says: "Let me tell you, I heard that Stanley Kubrick did a lot of takes on Eyes Wide Shut, it was nothing compared to the amount of takes we did once we had that cheerleader naked and bouncing around on a trampoline! I mean, she was great, she got it on the first take, but we did take, after take, after take! And we finished early and we had like three hours, and we're like, 'Well, how much film do we have?' And we're like, 'All right, let's ... let's do it again!' And she just had a smile on her face the whole time."
Grindhouse is, in many ways, a cartoon, and its intersection of sex and violence is meant to be ironic, funny even. It makes multiple nods to parody and pastiche. I'm not so sure that British audiences will share the directors' humour though. As one of the stars of Planet Terror, the British actor Naveen Andrews, has said on the subject of the B-movie films Grindhouse is based on: "Obviously, Quentin and Rodriguez saw some kind of aesthetic in these kinds of films, and for the life of me I was trying to grasp what it was. They were laughing like maniacs and I didn't find it funny for more than like a minute."
Over the years, many directors have defended the violence in their films by claiming that it's ironic. But is an image of a nubile woman having her innards pulled out - as occurs in Planet Terror - any less problematic because it has been made in a knowing way? You could argue that it's more problematic. Irony - with its inherent insincerity - can be an emotionally deadening tool, and, in terms of their content, these films are already deadening, de-sensitising enough. The irony just adds another layer of soul-sucking cynicism to the mix.
Watching Grindhouse, I felt fundamentally depressed: who would seek out this experience as entertainment? What is more depressing is the fact that such films seem to be part of a wider trend towards the mainstream depiction of women as highly sexualised bait and prey: meat, as Roth had it. Over the past year, for example, we've seen mainstream fashion images that have shown highly made up, designer-clad women being brutalised (Italian Vogue), apparently about to be gang raped (a Dolce and Gabbana ad), and shot, stabbed and electrocuted (America's Next Top Model). On shows such as CSI and its many spin-offs and imitators, the victims of each weekly murder case are, disproportionately, nubile young women. Lisa de Moraes of the Washington Post came up with an apt shorthand for such series in 2005, dubbing that year's programmes the "season of Die, Women, Die!".
Of course, watching one of these films won't turn a sane, decent individual into a killer or a torturer, but you have to wonder what effect this widespread meshing of sexuality and graphic violence will have on the young men at whom they are primarily aimed. The clear logic behind all these films, TV shows and images appears to be that if a young, good-looking, barely-clad woman is sexy while alive, she's even sexier when she's being tortured, or when she's a bloody corpse."
THanks Ms Cogchrane this is is me again ,
If you have sisters or daughters think of it !
Love and peace
Anastasia
I like nostalgia but Quentin Tarantino is paying homage to people or movies I know knothing about parody I therefore cannot enjoy like you . I bet it's much less funny and enjoyable if you havent that cultural background.
Kira Cochrane in the Guardian sept 07 speaks for me:
....(She talks about other movies but I left it so you can follow her thinking)
Horror films have, of course, always been full of nasty, misanthropic imagery. In many other films, extreme, sexualised violence against women has frequently been a theme (Clockwork Orange, Boxing Helena and many others spring to mind). But recently the levels of horrific violence on show at the multiplexes - and the sheer cynicism of the films involved - have gone through the roof. And a lot of the most nasty, unrepentant and terrifyingly pointless violence is aimed at women. At least Clockwork Orange had a political point to make. (There can be no excuses for Boxing Helena.)
In most of these films, both men and women end up being sliced, gored, dismembered, decapitated. In that sense they offer audiences equal-opportunity gore. But it's the violence against women that's most troubling, because it is here that sex and extreme violence collide....(on other movies)..
The publicity campaigns for many of these films flag up the prospect of watching a nubile young woman being tortured as a genuinely pleasurable experience. So, for instance, a recent US billboard campaign for the upcoming (mainstream) film Captivity featured the film's star Elisha Cuthbert (just voted the 10th sexiest woman in the world by the young male readers of FHM magazine) in a series of four photographs. In the first (labelled ABDUCTION) a black-gloved hand covers her mouth. The second (CONFINEMENT) shows her, with bloody fingers, struggling to get out of a cage. The third (TORTURE) has her face encased in an odd white mask, tubes shoved up her nose, and apparently filled with blood. Finally, under the word TERMINATION, she is shown laid out, apparently dead.
The billboard attracted a barrage of complaints, with Jill Soloway (one of the writers of Six Feet Under) leading a campaign against it - the poster was soon taken down. In a piece on the Huffington Post website, Soloway wrote that the images were "the most repulsive, horrifying, woman-hating, human-hating thing I have ever seen in public" and didn't just represent "horror, this wasn't just misogyny ... It was a grody combo platter of the two, the torture almost a punishment for the sexiness. It had come from such a despicable inhuman hatred place that it somehow managed to recall Abu Ghraib, the Holocaust, porn and snuff films all at once." Joss Whedon, creator of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series, agreed, writing in a letter to the MPAA, the US ratings board, that the ad campaign "is not only a literal sign of the collapse of humanity, it's an assault ... this ad is part of a cycle of violence and misogyny that takes something away from the people who have to see it. It's like being mugged."
TARANTINO begins here:
Many of today's torture porn films are being made on tiny budgets by little-known directors, but with the release of the new Tarantino/Rodriguez double-bill, Grindhouse - designed as a tribute to the ultra-violent B-movie programmes of old - the trend officially reaches the mainstream. Made up of two films plus a clutch of trailers for non-existent movies, Grindhouse bombed when it was released in the US last month. American audiences were said to have been put off by the three-hour running time, and last week it was announced that Grindhouse will be released in a different format in the UK, the two films sold as separate features. Whether either film is any good is still up for debate - I, for one, found them both suicidally boring. What isn't in question is the disturbing attitude towards women in these films.
First on the programme is Robert Rodriguez's Planet Terror, a repetitively gory, gloomily depressing zombie picture, which opens with Rose McGowan pole dancing. There are close ups of her bottom and breasts in those initial scenes, and then she appears to be kissing another woman. In a feature about Grindhouse in Rolling Stone last month, Rodriguez noted that, "When we started talking about the movie, Quentin said, 'There should always be a lesbian kiss just around the corner - possibly.' I took that to heart, and in my very first scene, I have two female tongues going at each other and licking. You find out that it's Rose licking a mirror, but it gets across the idea that it could be around the corner at any time."
So far, so predictable. It isn't surprising that the film's main female character is a go-go dancer - Rodriguez is, after all, the director who made Sin City, in which the female characters ran the gamut from prostitutes to strippers. But having established McGowan's sexiness, in Planet Terror, the attacks on her begin. First a zombie rips off McGowan's leg, and then Tarantino (playing a zombie soldier called Rapist Number One) holds a gun to her head, before threatening her with rape. You can currently buy a Rapist Number One action figure online for your kids, should you so wish.
Then there's Tarantino's Death Proof, in which Kurt Russell stars as Stuntman Mike, a guy who gets his kicks from stalking groups of gorgeous young women, following them in his car and ramming whatever vehicle they happen to be travelling in, until they are dead. Severed limbs and bloodied faces abound. Interestingly, of all the women actors in Grindhouse, McGowan is the only one to appear in both films, and, while she survives Planet Terror (fitting the age-old horror archetype of the "final girl" who persists to the end - usually, it seems, to help justify the misogyny that has gone before) this triumph is short-lived. In Death Proof, McGowan's character is swiftly - gruesomely - dispatched. (In that same Rolling Stone feature, McGowan talked about her own attitude towards today's horror films, saying that, "all they do now is think about ways to torture women, primarily. I don't really get that. What is this, a manual for young, budding serial killers? Can't we just go watch Pillow Talk?")
Some of the nastiest images in Grindhouse arise in the fake trailers. Rob Zombie, director of The Devil's Rejects, creates one for a dream project - Werewolf Women of the SS - which includes the image of a topless woman, bound and gagged, being tortured by cartoonish Nazi soldiers. And Eli Roth - him again! - packs a host of sex and gore into his three-minute trailer for a potential film called Thanksgiving, including an image of a cheerleader peeling off her clothes while bouncing on a trampoline, before apparently being impaled with a large, gleaming knife - through the vagina, no less. (Horrifying though this is, it isn't actually original - the 2005 film Chaos showed a woman being anally raped with a knife.)
Unsurprisingly, the cheerleader scene in Grindhouse attracted some attention from the MPAA, the US ratings board, and Roth was forced to change it, to make the imagery much more suggestive than explicit. Addressing this at the American press junket for Grindhouse, he commented that "when I shot that trailer for Thanksgiving, I really thought there was no problem with anything - it just shows you how genuinely out of touch I am! I was like ... a full frontal labial shot, to camera, of a girl landing on a knife seemed like no problem to me ..."
Of course, maybe Roth's just trying to be funny - his tone is gleeful throughout this interview (a transcript and audio version of which can be found on a number of film websites). Later in the interview he says: "Let me tell you, I heard that Stanley Kubrick did a lot of takes on Eyes Wide Shut, it was nothing compared to the amount of takes we did once we had that cheerleader naked and bouncing around on a trampoline! I mean, she was great, she got it on the first take, but we did take, after take, after take! And we finished early and we had like three hours, and we're like, 'Well, how much film do we have?' And we're like, 'All right, let's ... let's do it again!' And she just had a smile on her face the whole time."
Grindhouse is, in many ways, a cartoon, and its intersection of sex and violence is meant to be ironic, funny even. It makes multiple nods to parody and pastiche. I'm not so sure that British audiences will share the directors' humour though. As one of the stars of Planet Terror, the British actor Naveen Andrews, has said on the subject of the B-movie films Grindhouse is based on: "Obviously, Quentin and Rodriguez saw some kind of aesthetic in these kinds of films, and for the life of me I was trying to grasp what it was. They were laughing like maniacs and I didn't find it funny for more than like a minute."
Over the years, many directors have defended the violence in their films by claiming that it's ironic. But is an image of a nubile woman having her innards pulled out - as occurs in Planet Terror - any less problematic because it has been made in a knowing way? You could argue that it's more problematic. Irony - with its inherent insincerity - can be an emotionally deadening tool, and, in terms of their content, these films are already deadening, de-sensitising enough. The irony just adds another layer of soul-sucking cynicism to the mix.
Watching Grindhouse, I felt fundamentally depressed: who would seek out this experience as entertainment? What is more depressing is the fact that such films seem to be part of a wider trend towards the mainstream depiction of women as highly sexualised bait and prey: meat, as Roth had it. Over the past year, for example, we've seen mainstream fashion images that have shown highly made up, designer-clad women being brutalised (Italian Vogue), apparently about to be gang raped (a Dolce and Gabbana ad), and shot, stabbed and electrocuted (America's Next Top Model). On shows such as CSI and its many spin-offs and imitators, the victims of each weekly murder case are, disproportionately, nubile young women. Lisa de Moraes of the Washington Post came up with an apt shorthand for such series in 2005, dubbing that year's programmes the "season of Die, Women, Die!".
Of course, watching one of these films won't turn a sane, decent individual into a killer or a torturer, but you have to wonder what effect this widespread meshing of sexuality and graphic violence will have on the young men at whom they are primarily aimed. The clear logic behind all these films, TV shows and images appears to be that if a young, good-looking, barely-clad woman is sexy while alive, she's even sexier when she's being tortured, or when she's a bloody corpse."
THanks Ms Cogchrane this is is me again ,
If you have sisters or daughters think of it !
Love and peace
Anastasia
-
anastasia vronski
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:20 am
Re: Death Proof
Sorry Sorry it Huge!
Speaking of "Antichrist" I saw it in Cannes Festival I was invited to
and I have understand enough to be disgusted 
To Mr Warburton I say You I mean you guys . This is what you said "hey guys what you think of death proof ?. nobobody interested?" in a way you are a part of it but not specifically.
Not being disrespectful I hope.
Speaking of "Antichrist" I saw it in Cannes Festival I was invited to
and I have understand enough to be disgusted To Mr Warburton I say You I mean you guys . This is what you said "hey guys what you think of death proof ?. nobobody interested?" in a way you are a part of it but not specifically.
Not being disrespectful I hope.
-
Dan Warburton
- Posts: 7920
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 12:42 am
Re: Death Proof
Not at all, and thanks for the monster post, even if much of the criticism in the article you cite seems to be aimed at Rodriguez rather than Tarantino.
As I wrote above, this is an area of discussion that can keep us all busy for years, and would also have to include pornography (which has now become more or less acceptable big business.. here in Paris there's even a Salon du X trade fair, where you can go along and have your sex toys autographed by your favourite "hardeuse".. a far cry from the grubby top shelf dirty old man days of when I was a kid), hiphop (much of whose verbal content has been pretty misogynist for well over a decade already) and no doubt many other aspects of contemporary mass media.
The question that should be addressed would be (as I asked above): is merely portraying (or in the case of rap lyrics, describing) acts of violence (towards women, but there's no reason why the argument shouldn't be extended to include men) tantamount to condoning them? I would say definitely not. But if you'd care to cite specific scenes / dialogue / images from Death Proof that, in your opinion, amount to this, I'm happy to debate the issue. Kira Cochrane, whose blog I've just been reading and enjoying, is a smart journalist, but I find it rather easy to take examples out of context (and sophomoronic cheerleader-on-a-trampoline tits'n'ass "humour" is just screaming to be taken out of context) and not analyse the phenomenon in a wider context as I outlined above. A line like "severed limbs and bloodied faces abound" is simply not true: the film lasts 1 hour and 45 minutes (not including final credit sequence). The first bloodied face you see is at 45'15" (the girl who dies in Russell's car) and stays onscreen for 13 seconds; the head-on car crash (one severed leg flying out of the car window) is seen several times and lasts 22 seconds. All the rest of the blood shed is Russell's - he gets shot in the arm, beaten with a metal pipe by Zoe Bell and finally punched senseless and stomped on by the three girls (total duration of beating scene, until final fatal kick from Rosario Dawson, 50 seconds). The shot of Jungle Julia's severed leg lasts 2 seconds, which is 0.0003% of the film's total duration. Hardly "abounds", is it?
So let's have some more in depth discussion of what's actually in the film.
As I wrote above, this is an area of discussion that can keep us all busy for years, and would also have to include pornography (which has now become more or less acceptable big business.. here in Paris there's even a Salon du X trade fair, where you can go along and have your sex toys autographed by your favourite "hardeuse".. a far cry from the grubby top shelf dirty old man days of when I was a kid), hiphop (much of whose verbal content has been pretty misogynist for well over a decade already) and no doubt many other aspects of contemporary mass media.
The question that should be addressed would be (as I asked above): is merely portraying (or in the case of rap lyrics, describing) acts of violence (towards women, but there's no reason why the argument shouldn't be extended to include men) tantamount to condoning them? I would say definitely not. But if you'd care to cite specific scenes / dialogue / images from Death Proof that, in your opinion, amount to this, I'm happy to debate the issue. Kira Cochrane, whose blog I've just been reading and enjoying, is a smart journalist, but I find it rather easy to take examples out of context (and sophomoronic cheerleader-on-a-trampoline tits'n'ass "humour" is just screaming to be taken out of context) and not analyse the phenomenon in a wider context as I outlined above. A line like "severed limbs and bloodied faces abound" is simply not true: the film lasts 1 hour and 45 minutes (not including final credit sequence). The first bloodied face you see is at 45'15" (the girl who dies in Russell's car) and stays onscreen for 13 seconds; the head-on car crash (one severed leg flying out of the car window) is seen several times and lasts 22 seconds. All the rest of the blood shed is Russell's - he gets shot in the arm, beaten with a metal pipe by Zoe Bell and finally punched senseless and stomped on by the three girls (total duration of beating scene, until final fatal kick from Rosario Dawson, 50 seconds). The shot of Jungle Julia's severed leg lasts 2 seconds, which is 0.0003% of the film's total duration. Hardly "abounds", is it?
So let's have some more in depth discussion of what's actually in the film.
http://www.paristransatlantic.com
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
-
Dan Warburton
- Posts: 7920
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 12:42 am
Re: Death Proof
http://www.paristransatlantic.com
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
-
anastasia vronski
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:20 am
Re: Death Proof
Thank you Dan Warburton for your good will and openness.
I think he is sexist because he perpetuates the normalization tha glamourization and sexualization (shon shon shon) of violence and takes part in that cultural new discourse. Even if that always exited, I believe in western countries it was not officially promoted. it increases the level of violence against women that seems tolerable in society. It has a strong symbolic resonance even if it happens only at 45'15'' and lasts 13'' it's short but it lasts in your mind.It will happen , it has happened and you know it will again..It's suspense ,fearbut this fearis mixed your life as a woman you always need to be careful . You can't be really freeand if you need to be a stuntswoman tio escape it's not encouraging. So you know it will prevent you to do what you want like a man going out having sex.
I've seen the movie too long ago and I can't remember enough in order to tell you sentences or moments .I hane no DVD . I have read quotes on the web and I admit I found nothing sexist it is only on the whole I think . I remember it like a movie of threat and a feeling of backlashing women progresses.It looked like "look what happens when when you behave like that"
Men get killed but usually there are reasons greed maffia jalousy but sometimes women get killed ( three women one man in four deaths) because they are women and that will never happen to men (except when Hitler killed the Jews)
I checked the synopsis on the web , the girls escaping in the end are the ones speaking about not sleeping with men Butterfly and Abby if I'm not all wrong . Isn't it sexist from Tarantino ?
Concerning the dialogs I remember I enjoyed listening to the girls because I'm found to hear English speaking people.Tarantino had sent his dialogs to Bob Dylan but Dylan did not answer . I'm glad he didn't get involved in that . Hev prefers to feature in Victoria's secrets ads!!! (slays me with laughter)
Bye Bye
I think he is sexist because he perpetuates the normalization tha glamourization and sexualization (shon shon shon) of violence and takes part in that cultural new discourse. Even if that always exited, I believe in western countries it was not officially promoted. it increases the level of violence against women that seems tolerable in society. It has a strong symbolic resonance even if it happens only at 45'15'' and lasts 13'' it's short but it lasts in your mind.It will happen , it has happened and you know it will again..It's suspense ,fearbut this fearis mixed your life as a woman you always need to be careful . You can't be really freeand if you need to be a stuntswoman tio escape it's not encouraging. So you know it will prevent you to do what you want like a man going out having sex.
I've seen the movie too long ago and I can't remember enough in order to tell you sentences or moments .I hane no DVD . I have read quotes on the web and I admit I found nothing sexist it is only on the whole I think . I remember it like a movie of threat and a feeling of backlashing women progresses.It looked like "look what happens when when you behave like that"
Men get killed but usually there are reasons greed maffia jalousy but sometimes women get killed ( three women one man in four deaths) because they are women and that will never happen to men (except when Hitler killed the Jews)
I checked the synopsis on the web , the girls escaping in the end are the ones speaking about not sleeping with men Butterfly and Abby if I'm not all wrong . Isn't it sexist from Tarantino ?
Concerning the dialogs I remember I enjoyed listening to the girls because I'm found to hear English speaking people.Tarantino had sent his dialogs to Bob Dylan but Dylan did not answer . I'm glad he didn't get involved in that . Hev prefers to feature in Victoria's secrets ads!!! (slays me with laughter)
Bye Bye
-
Dan Warburton
- Posts: 7920
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 12:42 am
Re: Death Proof
"Butterfly" gets killed in the first car crash; Abby is one of the three who make it to the end (and she kills Stuntman Mike)anastasia vronski wrote: I checked the synopsis on the web , the girls escaping in the end are the ones speaking about not sleeping with men Butterfly and Abby if I'm not all wrong
http://www.paristransatlantic.com
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
Re: Death Proof
?????anastasia vronski wrote:sometimes women get killed ( three women one man in four deaths) because they are women and that will never happen to men (except when Hitler killed the Jews)
-
anastasia vronski
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:20 am
Re: Death Proof
I had a feeling I was wrong . If there is only one of the two I believed Tarantino makes them say that my reasoning doesn't succeed . So YOU WIN it is not a proof enough but I'm still feeling the same about movies and society in general.Dan Warburton wrote:"Butterfly" gets killed in the first car crash; Abby is one of the three who make it to the end (and she kills Stuntman Mike)anastasia vronski wrote: I checked the synopsis on the web , the girls escaping in the end are the ones speaking about not sleeping with men Butterfly and Abby if I'm not all wrong
Bye bye
AV
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anastasia vronski
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Re: Death Proof
You're talking to me?????jon abbey wrote:?????anastasia vronski wrote:sometimes women get killed ( three women one man in four deaths) because they are women and that will never happen to men (except when Hitler killed the Jews)
Hitler killed the Jews just because they were Jews . He didn't like them just like some men hate women because they are women .
Re: Death Proof
because that's the only time in history that's happened.
what an idiotic diversion by you in this thread, from start to finish. and no, that's not because you're allegedly a woman.
what an idiotic diversion by you in this thread, from start to finish. and no, that's not because you're allegedly a woman.
Re: Death Proof
can we figure out what the topic is and stay on it, please?
m
m
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Dan Warburton
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Re: Death Proof
The topic is Tarantino's movie, not the holocaust nor Mr Abbey's amusing doubts about the gender of Ms Vronksi (who, if she wishes to participate further in the discussion, such as it is, is strongly recommended to watch the film in question from start to finish instead of reading "reviews" of it written by people who haven't seen it either).
http://www.paristransatlantic.com
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
REISSUED! Eric La Casa / Jean-Luc Guionnet / Dan Warburton METRO PRE SAINT GERVAIS
https://swarming.bandcamp.com/album/met ... nt-gervais
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anastasia vronski
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Re: Death Proof
I prefer to be idiotic sometimes than psychotic all the time (speaking of stuntman Mike of coursejon abbey wrote:because that's the only time in history that's happened.
what an idiotic diversion by you in this thread, from start to finish. and no, that's not because you're allegedly a woman.
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anastasia vronski
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Re: Death Proof
I have seen the movie but without subtitles and about 2 years ago . I I explained a feeling I kept.Dan Warburton wrote:The topic is Tarantino's movie, not the holocaust nor Mr Abbey's amusing doubts about the gender of Ms Vronksi (who, if she wishes to participate further in the discussion, such as it is, is strongly recommended to watch the film in question from start to finish instead of reading "reviews" of it written by people who haven't seen it either).
To improve my English I read and look how people write and sometimes borrow their words when they fit my ideas and feelings because sometimes it's difficult here when it's out of context and I can't see the faces and mimics I am at a loss and I lack a lot of lexics.
Also I am a self made women intellectually and culturally without mentioning your wisdom and experience
But I must tell you you and what ambivalent things I read make me want now to see the movie again after all. It would be a good experience with a new eye .
Re: Death Proof
quentin tarantino makes movies that are about being movies. it is fascinating if you are not concerned with time or continuity.
death proof was my favorite of the two, because of the above. very little "happens" in the sense of traditional movie "action," but it happens so eloquently...
tarantino is attempting to break the third wall, to force the script itself to be aware that it is in fact a script, and not a document of reality. does that make any sense at all?
death proof was my favorite of the two, because of the above. very little "happens" in the sense of traditional movie "action," but it happens so eloquently...
tarantino is attempting to break the third wall, to force the script itself to be aware that it is in fact a script, and not a document of reality. does that make any sense at all?
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anastasia vronski
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Re: Death Proof
I got a translation of Gordon's post . I didn't understand so I delete .
Re: Death Proof
Except for the fact that the women are not-by-coincidence hot, I see Death Proof as largely a feminist movie. Not unlike Thelma & Louise.
Seems to me that it's the guys that suffer the most. I don't think Tarantino could have gotten away with cutting a woman's ear off as he did in Reservoir Dogs.
Seems to me that it's the guys that suffer the most. I don't think Tarantino could have gotten away with cutting a woman's ear off as he did in Reservoir Dogs.
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anastasia vronski
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:20 am
Re: Death Proof
You mesure the sufferings in a strange way!
No No No for Thelma and Louise this one is not Hollywood entertainment like Tarantino .
The scenario was made by a woman and I won't repeat what is on Wikipedia (but I checked her name to be sure Dan Warburton
) I think this movie IS feminist I agree 100 percent .When I saw it ,twice and I still do.
I love the relationship between the women the older and the younger , each different type of women character .I like the end as it is because you could not have another one. I like theses actresses they are really good .In Hollywood films I don't find so many interesting characters especially when they get older.
Other movies I like;
Virgin Suicides Sophia Coppola. Beautiful
Sugarland Express Steven Spielberg nice character but nor feminist nor sexist IMO.
Gordon's post:
What is the 3rd wall I know the fourth even the fifth ? . Can someone explain please? or give a link
Anastasia
No No No for Thelma and Louise this one is not Hollywood entertainment like Tarantino .
The scenario was made by a woman and I won't repeat what is on Wikipedia (but I checked her name to be sure Dan Warburton
) I think this movie IS feminist I agree 100 percent .When I saw it ,twice and I still do.I love the relationship between the women the older and the younger , each different type of women character .I like the end as it is because you could not have another one. I like theses actresses they are really good .In Hollywood films I don't find so many interesting characters especially when they get older.
Other movies I like;
Virgin Suicides Sophia Coppola. Beautiful
Sugarland Express Steven Spielberg nice character but nor feminist nor sexist IMO.
Gordon's post:
What is the 3rd wall I know the fourth even the fifth ? . Can someone explain please? or give a link
Anastasia
Re: Death Proof
in retrospect "3rd wall" probably isn't a good label.anastasia vronski wrote: Gordon's post:
What is the 3rd wall I know the fourth even the fifth ? . Can someone explain please? or give a link
Anastasia
i don't know if it is an existing concept, it's just something i made up while thinking about quentin tarantino while reading this thread. the man is always talking about the experience of going to a theater and seeing a great movie. in his films, the plot itself doesn't matter as much as the fact that it holds the viewer's attention. same with the characters, etc...
to put it another way, he is very good at taking an old formula and turning it on its head!
english is my first language, but sometimes i find it very hard to use. oy.