
Last And First Men, Olaf Stapledon
Disturbingly prescient so far.
Moderator: michael





Depressing?surfer wrote: A New Green History of the World: The Environment and the Collapse of Great Civilizations (Clive Ponting)
Not so far. 60 pages in, its outlined the development of a life sustaining planet, then the gradual evolution of modern Homo Sapien Sapiens, the spread throughout the globe, and now the gradual transition from small mobile hunter-gatherer units to sedentery agriculture societies,about 10,000 BC. The second half of the book I surmise is going to deal with the Romans and other societies that over time grew too large or overtaxed their ecosystems.yonhosago wrote:Depressing?surfer wrote: A New Green History of the World: The Environment and the Collapse of Great Civilizations (Clive Ponting)
hadn't realised it was a graphic novel until I started going through a book of 500 graphic Novels you Must read. film was good and this 500 book has directed me to some stuff I hadn't been aware of before.p.t wrote:
Old Boy!
Haven't seen the movie, but the book (graphic novel) is brilliant!


What, the book or this post?mudd wrote:well it's somewhat hard to defend what is probably a moderately shallow pleasure. but i can give it a try. i'll try not to say anything too spoilerish, but anyone already working on the book might want to bypass this post. it's too long, anyway.jon abbey wrote:man, I found it worthless to the point of irritation by the end, superficial, not especially interestingly written, really a waste of my time. I'd be curious to hear more specifics on your opinion if you have a chance...mudd wrote:anyway i read inherent vice this week. i enjoyed it, though i do have a few complaints.
Good points, all. But Weismann / Blicero is purdy nasty, wouldn't you say?mudd wrote:first of all, the stumbling momentum of the book is something i really enjoy about pynchon. the way his characters are just sure enough about what they're trying to do to let the time and place step into the story like a character. in fact this time i think that los angeles in 1970 was the second most important character of the book. the best writing in pynchon (to me, anyway) are the fade-outs, as he takes a step back away from the characters and lets them disappear into the scenery. i also thought the plot was pretty entertaining. it had the right build to it, with herrings just pink enough to keep the pot from cooling down. the secondary characters might have been mostly parodies and porn cliches, but their screen time was just right to keep them funny. in fact if anything i think the 'big story' was a little too resolved, and the only scene that really fell flat was the 'big climax'. and i don't think that was accidental. i've always liked the way that people never quite manage to become convincing villains in a pynchon telling. they can be bad, sure, but real evil is something else entirely.
Yep, spot on.mudd wrote:it was more an unraveling, as if all the pieces were in place and then the carpet was yanked out from beneath them in slow motion.
Odd choice of word - how so?mudd wrote:the ARPAnet schtick was indefensible.
Disagree. There's not much actual sex going on in Inherent Vice. A few hardons here and there, but nothing to compare with the amazing orgy on the boat in Gravity's Rainbow. There's always been a fair amount of smut in Pynchon, anyway. I don't mind that. You sound as if you do, somewhat.mudd wrote:the gradual escalation of porn appeal from all the female characters was definitely overdone
How many of Pynchon's characters ever "resolve"?mudd wrote:the third most important character, the police officer, didn't ever resolve to me as a character. a little too developed for the comic cut-outs that filled out the rest of the cast, but not solid enough to understand or feel for or against.
That's definitely the one to read. Coming to terms with Pynchon without reading GR is a bit like.. umm, writing a Derek Bailey biography without mentioning Evan Parkerjon abbey wrote:(this is only the fourth I've read, the first two and Vineland, embarrassingly still no Gravity's Rainbow
i suppose the word choice was somewhat in response to conversation jon and I had offline about it. if pynchon wanted to write about ARPAnet he could have done much better. as it stands it was a brief, under-developed, and a huge disappointment considering how pynchon seemed to have a better grasp on the role of the internet 40 years earlier. this time around it was just a funny anachronism.Dan Warburton wrote:Odd choice of word - how so?mudd wrote:the ARPAnet schtick was indefensible.
no, you misunderstand me. i'm fine with the sex scenes, always have been. it's the way in which new female characters are introduced that got on my nerves. it's a very deliberate thing, close to a parody of the way a noir film would introduce the mysterious woman who needs help from the detective, only instead of shadowy there's a leering, drooling feel. it wouldn't be a problem if it were only used once or twice, but it's really nearly every female character, which seemed to squeeze out pynchon's ability to make the entrance interesting by the time we're up to japonica i was pretty tired of it.Dan Warburton wrote:Disagree. There's not much actual sex going on in Inherent Vice. A few hardons here and there, but nothing to compare with the amazing orgy on the boat in Gravity's Rainbow. There's always been a fair amount of smut in Pynchon, anyway. I don't mind that. You sound as if you do, somewhat.mudd wrote:the gradual escalation of porn appeal from all the female characters was definitely overdone