ihatemusic

yes, there's already a related thread, but the scope of it is a bit different...

I'm curious about recorded examples of anti-music that are, of lack of a better way to put it, more singular in their concept and execution.

THinking of things like (of course) The Fururists, Dada, Fluxus, Aktionists. Things that are readily available, and not oop and $$$$ please!

Specifically I think of THe New Blockaders 'Changez les Blockeurs' as the big example. Here are a few other ideas:

Erik Satie - Vexations and Furniture Music
Merzbow
John Cage - 4'33" (uh, right?)
Luigi Russolo - ?? (how is that recent intonarumori recording?)
Lou Reed - Metal Machine Music
Runzelstirn & Gurglestock - ??


So along those lines.. where the (anti)music betrays choices that are not simply aesthetic.

WHile I'm interested in the idea of individual "taste" and why should we like one thing over another or only deal with the sounds that we like and the futility of noise, etc... - I'd prefer not to discuss it here and more or less just try to sketch out an Anti-history of anti-music, as documented on record.

I'm far from an expert on this area, but when I see the term "Anti-Music", my first thought is Walter Marchetti.

I also think the nmperign/Lescalleet gents get into this area at times, maybe the best example is Greg's solo disc, I Don't Want To Live Forever.

--Conrad Schnitzler post-Tangerine Dream.

He has oodles and oodles of CD-r's, so it's up to you.

--Dadaism and Futurism V/A



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can we count the early minimalist process music? come out, clapping music, two pages, etc? i'm sure you know how easily those can be purchased.

check out stuff by some of the wandelweiser group. their recording of wolf's "stones" particularly. also cage's "branches."

i don't remember where i got it, but i have a cd comp of a bunch of different artists performing cage's silent piece. it's got keith rowe, toshiya tsunoda, deep listening band on it. lots of others, but i'd have to go dig it out to list them all. haven't listened to it in years, don't even remember what it's called or who put it out.

I have that Greg Kelley I Don't Want To Live Forever disc and the early Steve Reich pieces. Those are good choices.

In thinking about it, Alvin Lucier's I am sitting in a room and La Monte Young's Poem for benches, tables and chairs should be here though the latter is mostly unavailable except on bootleg.

Been curious about both Walter Marchetti and Schnitzler, so thanks for those..

"rotomotor" by anton bruhin

pretty much anything by The Haters.

http://www.jupitter-larsen.com/. lots of interesting stuff on here. check out some of the live vids and the vid on his anti-records.

being that theyre still around i assume they must have something in print.

Although you warned of high priced items--

Hermann Nitsch's Das 6-Tage-Spiel des Orgien Mysterien Theaters 51 CD-r box set.

http://www.forcedexposure.com/labels/he ... stria.html

Only $550. And only one copy left.

Indulge in your anti-music gluttony with this hefty aural documentation of Nitsch's Aktion 100.

It is not at all clear to me, based on your original post, what it is you are asking. I am not sure what you or any one really means what you mean by Anti-music, and what it's relation to being "singular in concept" has to do with what you are asking. Heck, that makes it sound like you are asking for process pieces... which is a whole other ball game. I am also not sure you mean by "the (anti)music betrays choices that are not simply aesthetic." and the examples you give only serve to make it less clear. In other words, i got no idea what the heck you are talking about, but since you say "I'd prefer not to discuss it here" i'll allow myself not to thing too hard on how ill defined any definition thus far is of Anti-music and try to be helpful by guessing a few answers that might suit you....


Robert Ashley - The Wolfman. (Score and recordings were in Score magazine, check that crazy library place)
Steve Reich (Pendulum music, Slow Motion Sound), La Monte Young Compositions 1960 (X for Henry Flynt)
Toshi Ichiyanagi's work. Any number of pieces by George Brecht (Candle piece Card piece, Water Yam, Mallard Milk), Yoko Ono, Phil Corner, Takehisha Kosogi (Music for a Rev., Anima), Paik Nam June, Dick Higgins, Yves Klien's music (yes he wrote some), Luigi Russolo's Noise Music "Awakening of a City", Craploads of Xenakis (Concrete PH for example), Annea Lockwood's Burning piano piece (forgot what she calls that), Alison Knowles, Gavin Bryar's Private Music, and the list goes on yo ... including stuff i barely remember like pieces with folks putting their hands in boxes that had silk, felt or broken glass in it and some German dood who cut his wanker off.

All of this requires closer scrutiny... this is off the top of my head, without, like i said, know what you are really asking.

inharmonik wrote:It is not at all clear to me, based on your original post, what it is you are asking. I am not sure what you or any one really means what you mean by Anti-music, and what it's relation to being "singular in concept" has to do with what you are asking.

Fair enough... I was directing the request towards those that might already have an idea of what I mean by "anti-music", but you had appropriate additions like The Wolfman.

"Singular" was referring to simply specific recordings that really stand out from the rest. For example, it could be said that "anti-music" is increasingly popular within Noise, but instead of getting into a genre like Noise or process music (though that's part of it), I'd prefer to glean specific examples of music that are somewhat consciously anti- music and extreme in their statements.

A couple guitar recordings I was thinking of:

Kevin Drumm - S/T
Donald Miller - A Little Treatise on Morals

The problem I have with the term anti-music is it implies a solid definition of what music is. What is music after all?
A lot of what some would consider anti-music I would consider musical. If you organize sound to produce an effect in the listener...well, what is it? I would say music.

Dohol wrote:The problem I have with the term anti-music is it implies a solid definition of what music is. What is music after all?
A lot of what some would consider anti-music I would consider musical. If you organize sound to produce an effect in the listener...well, what is it? I would say music.

definitely. I was trying to avoid getting into that, but yes - the true dadaist is against dadaism and even anti-art is art so it must be rejected..... it's kind of pointing out the absurdity of both statements and non-statements, music and anti-music.

We could get into the idea of how can anti-music and its ilk be effective when it becomes more widely accepted as music - it becomes a part of the culture it is critiqueing.

Argh! I was hoping to steer it towards specifics (recorded works of some historical significance) and keep away from generalizations.

Well, specifics, I belive there are existing recordings of Russolo's noise makers. In a lot of ways that is the taproot of what most ould consider antimusic. The art of noise thing is a bit over done but it is important and it does predate Varese's ideas of organized sound ( noise ) in music.

ok... here ya go:
From EST-Web: Anti-Music history
it covers part of the area I'm thinking of.

Incapacitants any and all releases

Tengue et Kitsune

Best recent example I can think of is Christian Marclay's Guitar Drag record on Neon gallery records.

I have been doing some research on Fluxus lately and I would say there's not a lot more Anti-music in sentiment than some of their offerings:

Nam June Paik's Solo for Violin, consists of a violin being slowly disembowled. There are many other similar (in intent) 'compositions' by Maciunas et al. Though I doubt there are recordings readily available...

Check out the fluxus debris site: http://www.artnotart.com/fluxus/" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;

Guds Soner, anything on Firework Editions for that matter.

new Walter Marchetti double CD on Alga Marghen description:

""Utopia andata e ritorno" is the title of the new composition by Walter Marchetti, recorded in MIlano in 2005. It has two parts, each one CD long. The first part, "L'andata", puts together two former recordings of Marchetti. The recording of a real storm and a recital for solo piano. This is not the first time that Marchetti mixes a piano solo recital with the recording of a natural live event, thus creating a "piano concert". The second CD, "Il ritorno", reverses the direction of the first record and literally destroys itself."

jon abbey wrote:The second CD, "Il ritorno", reverses the direction of the first record and literally destroys itself."

heh.. that's pretty funny taken with the rest of the description. that statement begs to be taken seriously.

Since you mentioned Walter Marchetti I've also been curious about his 'De Musicorum Infelicitate' as it was listed as a partial inspiration for Greg Kelley's 'i don't want to live forever'. What I've read about it makes it seem really intriguing.

There's a great Incapacitants performance on Youtube that I saw a while back. I love how they do a 360 degree pan at the beginning so you can see that they're playing in a scenic valley with mountains all around:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx-Mtq24hj4

Also, Hal McGee has his Homemade Alien Music podcast thing - but that's more specifically the 80's tape underground. The funny thing is that he was talking alot about the whole Dada connection and anti-art in his recent one:

http://haltapes1.podomatic.com

I'm curious about just listening to 'Guitar Drag' without having the video with it. I saw it in a gallery, and the visuals made a big impact as far as the statement of the piece went.

I definitely like the stuff that has a real strong concept driving it.