Essential titles/artists for an Avant-Garde CD section?

[orangettecoleman]

I'm establishing an "avant-garde/outside electronic" section at the record store I manage and am planning to bring in around 250-300 titles for it, on CD and to a lesser extent vinyl. What would you put in there to have a somewhat representative section, essential artists and so on? I'm thinking of concentrating primarily on 20th century classical, early electronic, and EAI since that's where my interests lie. Thoughts?

[WCrap]

20th century classical

the complete Edition RZ catalogue

[orangettecoleman]

Well, I'll bring some in. Keep in mind that 50 titles from one label is 50 titles from other labels that I would otherwise have brought in... But i'll bookmark the label page on FE, thanks for the suggestion. Some of those will make it into the section for sure.

[bedouin]

I would build the collection around 3 names : Cage, Lachenmann, Stockhausen.

or maybe you could consider stocking specific labels.
Edition RZ is a favorite here, but they are expensive, and a large part of their catalog is a little on the academic side.

Other labels you could consider are :
- Kairos
brilliant packaging and their discs seem to hold their price even on the 2nd hand market which means less competition.
- Montaigne
They have a series of benchmark reissues (Xenakis, Feldman, etc) at very reasonable prices.
- Col Legno
Mainly for their Lachenmann discs which are my favorite of his.
- Hat Art & ECM New Series
Both are known outside avant garde aficionados, so familiarity could help attracting people. Hat Art are re-releasing some of their fantastic back catalog.
ECM New Series I am not a great fan of but they do have some jewels.

Some other reasonably priced series, could include :
- Deutsche Grammophon 20/21 Series
- Harmonia Mundi, Musique d'Abord Series

[sevenarts]

That's a big area, obviously, but a few things jump to mind; these are some essential cornerstones of any broadly defined "avant-garde" collection, in my opinion (mostly without getting into the current eai scene, for which you should just check out all the usual suspect labels). And all off the top of my head, so of course I'm probably forgetting tons of stuff I'd make sure to get if I was gathering a collection like this myself. And apologies if any of this is long out of print, which is very possible.

a sampling of Stockhausen, Cage, Cardew, Xenakis (Persepolis!), etc.
AMM
Eliane Radigue - pretty much anything, in my experience, but especially Trilogie de la Mort
Robert Ashley - Automatic Writing
John Tilbury's Morton Feldman All Piano box set
Anthony Braxton
Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, etc. - a sampling of the free improv scene, at the very least as antecedents for what's happening now
Michael Pisaro
Alvin Lucier - I Am Sitting in a Room
Takehisa Kosugi - Catch-Wave
Masayuki Takayanagi - anything that's around
Ground-Zero

I wouldn't totally ignore noise either, even if it's not your thing: Merzbow, RLW, Fushitsusha/Keiji Haino, Kevin Drumm, Prurient, Bastard Noise, Aube, some of that kind of stuff should probably be in there. The recent reissues of early Drumm (s/t, Second and that new box set) would seem like obvious inclusions, at least. Which reminds me randomly of Rafael Toral's Aeriola Frequency, a great album released by the same label, Perdition Plastics, that did Drumm's first two discs.

[shitking]

Chaya Czernowin's three discs on MODE.

http://www.moderecords.com/profiles/chayaczernowin.html

Here's a sample from Maim: http://vimeo.com/8770045

[orangettecoleman]

all great suggestions, thanks. This will be a great resource once I get ordering.

[mudd]

is your objective displaying the true depth of the avant garde or presenting a selection of interesting releases that might draw a curious listener into exploring the avant garde?

because there is a wide range of amazing music that isn't ever going to sell.

m

[schiksalgemeinschaft]

don't forget to PM Jon for an Erstwhile bulk deal

but someone should write obis for them though, since your brick & mortar

[jon abbey]

don't forget to PM Jon for an Erstwhile bulk deal

he did this before starting the thread, to his credit.

I agree about edition RZ, although they're quite pricy, I try to stock what I can from them.

the Tilbury All Piano set that Ed mentions is one of the crucial releases of the last 20 years, but has always had terrible distro. I'd contact Eddie Prevost there and see what kind of deal he can give you, but that might make more sense once you've been going for a while already.

[surfer]

the record store I manage

Do you work at Zia? I used to work there back in the 90s (in Tucson).

[nirav]

Mego has a very accessible side, a design aesthetic that makes their discs compelling, and a lot of great music....I'd think well of a store that stocked a good selections of theirs.

Also, if you're in Arizona, you should have a Jeph Jerman section.

[orangettecoleman]

I work at Hoodlums, actually, in Tempe. I will be ordering a number of Erst titles and Mego titles, and thanks for the Jeph Jerman suggestion - I will make sure we have a couple of titles in of his. It doesn't necessarily need to be a comprehensive section (well, it couldn't be even if that was my intention) but it would be cool if my record store was one of the only places in the country you can walk in the door and buy an AMM CD off the shelf for instance... it's mainly going to be representative titles of artists and genres I like, more or less.

[A Consumer]

the record store I manage

Do you work at Zia? I used to work there back in the 90s (in Tucson).

I probably bought some music from you then. Spent 89-97 in Tucson and grew up in PHX.
Sub Rosa is another good choice.
Their "Anthology of noise & electronic music" is a great primer
(tho I've heard grumblings that they haven't paid the artists that appear on it - could just be interweb hearsay for all I really know).
also OHM: The Early Gurus Of Electronic Music on Ellipsis Arts is another set in the same vein.

[Dan G]

it's mainly going to be representative titles of artists and genres I like, more or less.

Having spent many years working in record stores and book stores, this is great in theory but not in practice when talking about marginal music. I found that the stuff i brought in because I liked it often just sat there...

It's been a long time since I worked in retail - was from about 1985 to1998 or so - but I wouldn't be surprised if things have gotten even harder to sell now. These days the ones who are into it probably don't expect to find anything in a store anymore and have alternative sources (online, direct from artists). I've probably been in 5 record stores in the past 5 years, all of them while on vacations in Europe, mostly just to see what they have but seldom to buy becuase the cost is pretty much always going to be higher than alternative sources.

I hate to say it, but a "well-stocked" section would have to have stuff that would sell to people who know little about the music, so a selection of names (Cage, Stockhausen, AMM) and labels (Hat, Erstwhile) that people might have come across somewhere but not heard is probably the way to go. And even with those discs, you will have to be promoting the hell out of them, playing the music in-store so people can be exposed to it unless you want it filled with dusty discs that cost the store a lot of money.

[surfer]

I probably bought some music from you then. Spent 89-97 in Tucson and grew up in PHX.

I worked at the legendarily out-of-the-way but now closed Kolb Rd store, back in 98 alas. I used to play a lot of avant Jazz on the in-store stereo, but the only thing I was ever asked to take off, by both the staff and a customer who was chasing his 3 year old son through the stacks, was Out To Lunch by Eric Dolphy. The guy looked like he was going to punch me in the face if I didnt comply. I think it was the title track, the insistently sing-songy, slightly shrill, arrhythmic qualities driving everyone mad.

[A Consumer]

I probably bought some music from you then. Spent 89-97 in Tucson and grew up in PHX.

I worked at the legendarily out-of-the-way but now closed Kolb Rd store, back in 98 alas. I used to play a lot of avant Jazz on the in-store stereo, but the only thing I was ever asked to take off, by both the staff and a customer who was chasing his 3 year old son through the stacks, was Out To Lunch by Eric Dolphy. The guy looked like he was going to punch me in the face if I didnt comply. I think it was the title track, the insistently sing-songy, slightly shrill, arrhythmic qualities driving everyone mad.

Def didn't go to that way as it was (and is) BFE. Out to Lunch????? That is so tame. How can you not love Dolphy's tone? It was more likely Williams refusal to play the spang-a-lang. Lots of people in AZ are very narrow minded (if recent news hasn't brought that into focus) and yet another reason I never want to live there again.

On topic: Rune Grammafon label tows the line between experiment and grrove very well.
Supersilent should be required listening for any young improviser

[orangettecoleman]

it's mainly going to be representative titles of artists and genres I like, more or less.

Having spent many years working in record stores and book stores, this is great in theory but not in practice when talking about marginal music. I found that the stuff i brought in because I liked it often just sat there...

It's been a long time since I worked in retail - was from about 1985 to1998 or so - but I wouldn't be surprised if things have gotten even harder to sell now. These days the ones who are into it probably don't expect to find anything in a store anymore and have alternative sources (online, direct from artists). I've probably been in 5 record stores in the past 5 years, all of them while on vacations in Europe, mostly just to see what they have but seldom to buy becuase the cost is pretty much always going to be higher than alternative sources.

I hate to say it, but a "well-stocked" section would have to have stuff that would sell to people who know little about the music, so a selection of names (Cage, Stockhausen, AMM) and labels (Hat, Erstwhile) that people might have come across somewhere but not heard is probably the way to go. And even with those discs, you will have to be promoting the hell out of them, playing the music in-store so people can be exposed to it unless you want it filled with dusty discs that cost the store a lot of money.

Agreed. That's why I'll be stocking the artists you mention rather than just as assortment of CDs I like but the section is hopefully going to be an assortment of the major artists/titles that are most representative of the genres I like - I'm putting it all in there on my own dime and selling it on consignment and hoping to turn over everything in the section once a year on average (some might sell more, many will sell less). I'm just basically trying to break even while trying to have outside music available for folks in town, and I do know a number of customers who are into this stuff and I think would buy these titles. I wouldn't even try to talk the owners into spending store money on this stuff though, because it would never ever happen. Fortunately the way things are all they need to do is set aside a little shelf space and let me handle everything else since I'm bringing everything in myself. I will say that I brought in some 20th century classical for the classical section and we've sold Stockhausen, Feldman, and Cage a few times already this year, so the idea of selling this stuff isn't hopeless, although I wouldn't stake my livelihood (or the owners) on it by any means.

[orangettecoleman]

the record store I manage

Do you work at Zia? I used to work there back in the 90s (in Tucson).

I probably bought some music from you then. Spent 89-97 in Tucson and grew up in PHX.
Sub Rosa is another good choice.
Their "Anthology of noise & electronic music" is a great primer
(tho I've heard grumblings that they haven't paid the artists that appear on it - could just be interweb hearsay for all I really know).
also OHM: The Early Gurus Of Electronic Music on Ellipsis Arts is another set in the same vein.

Yes, good suggestions. I will bring both of those sets in for sure.

[jon abbey]

Supersilent should be required listening for any young improviser

I couldn't agree less, they're dreadful improvisers, both on record (their first release specifically) and live.