So, I searched the archives and I didn't see a thread devoted to early music (let's limit it to pre-Baroque era). Mostly I'm looking for polyphonic music; that is, music with many melodies going at once rather than monophonic plain chant (one single melody). This goes across many centuries, but some favorite composers include the organum of Leonin and Perotin, Machaut, Josquin, Hildegard von Bingen, and the very atypical Gesualdo (might be a good jumping in place for those of you into 20th century music who haven't heard this stuff). Someone I don't like as much is Palestrina, not quite sure why...
I was wondering if any of y'all have any recommendations on other composers or ensembles to check out. A lot of music has anonymous authors, so collections or particular albums you like are welcome as well. As far as ensembles go I've enjoyed recordings by the Hilliard Ensemble and the Tallis Scholars. Any other good ones? One of the features of this music that I love is the very pure intonation and lack of vibrato, so ensembles that bring this out are especially attractive to me.
I realize there are many composers and ensembles I have not been exposed to - so please list some of them that you can vouch for (and if possible where they fall historically - though that isn't as important, just a curiosity).
Early Music
Re: Early Music
Not really on the Polyphony tip, but there's an ensemble called 'Atrium Music of Madrid' who've done some great recordings. The two I'm most familiar with are 'Music Arabo- Andolus' which is Moorish music from the time they ruled Spain, and 'Music of Antique Greece'. These two albums are on Harmonia Mundi, both an intriguing mix of reconstruction from available documents and extrapolation/ guesswork, and I think they're both fairly readily available. I know these guys have performed Gesuldo's works as well, but I haven't heard that.
Re: Early Music
John Dowland's Lachrimae pieces are especially beautiful (Consort of Musicke and Kronos provide good recordings), and I like some of his other work alright, between 1590s and early 1600s.
Arvo Part's arrangement of the Kanon Pokajanen (650 AD) by Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir
Gesualdo's Tenebrae by Hilliard Ensemble
there is an Ocora disc of Byzantine chant from Greece, 'Great Octotonal Chant to the Virgin,' by Theodore Vasilikos Ensemble which is a bit post-baroque period in origin. Less powerful to my ears than the above mentioned, actually kind of sounds close to Buddhist vocal music in its texture, but may still be of note here.
I don't know much early music, other than taking a short class on it, in which nothing really stood out but Machaut and von Bingen.
Arvo Part's arrangement of the Kanon Pokajanen (650 AD) by Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir
Gesualdo's Tenebrae by Hilliard Ensemble
there is an Ocora disc of Byzantine chant from Greece, 'Great Octotonal Chant to the Virgin,' by Theodore Vasilikos Ensemble which is a bit post-baroque period in origin. Less powerful to my ears than the above mentioned, actually kind of sounds close to Buddhist vocal music in its texture, but may still be of note here.
I don't know much early music, other than taking a short class on it, in which nothing really stood out but Machaut and von Bingen.
"Detachments are apprenticeships." Paz
Re: Early Music
We definitely had some sort of early music thread in the past, but a new one can't hurt.
At the time of typing I am listening to the Early Music Consort of London's 'Music of the Gothic Era' anthology on Archiv (mediaeval repertoire of the sort you've mentioned - Léonin etc.). The recordings date from 1975, and are considered unorthodox by today's standards (e.g. mixing in instruments with the voices), but they were a pioneering ensemble, and have lost none of the freshness.
I'm no expert on early music vocal performance (maybe the now-rarely-sighted Fearandpanic would have something more erudite to say on that score), but the groups you cite above (Tallis and Hilliard) are generally seen as belonging to an English choral tradition that favours an unemotive, even restrained delivery. Some prefer the more vigorous style of some continental European groups: Todd McComb of the Early Music FAQ has written quite a few notes on the varying approaches, but he can be quite pedantic, and has a perverse habit of denouncing widely-acclaimed recordings and instead recommending ones by obscure artists which are usually out of print (see his list of favourite performances).
As for other composers and groups to add to your list, well, there are a lot of interesting Franco-Flemish composers who fall chronologically between Machaut and Josquin: most importantly Dufay and Ockeghem, but also Binchois, Obrecht, Busnois, etc. Here is a particular recording of lesser-known material I've enjoyed, about to be re-released at budget price (well, budget in UK currency):
Details here. It's on the Hyperion label, which has released a substantial number of good early music titles over the years. Another group on their roster, whom you may have come across, is Gothic Voices, who produced a lot of surveys of mediaeval song throughout the 80s and 90s. For polyphonic sacred stuff, I highly recommend this:
Missa Caput, an anonymous English mass from the 15th C - you are right that anonymous material can often throw up the biggest surprises. This actually appears to have gone out of print, but I'm sure a budget reissue is on the horizon.
Also worth investigating are the Virgin Veritas 2-CD reissues, generally of a pretty high quality. Here's a good secular one by a French group - chansons by Binchois and Lescurel:
There's more to add, but this post is already on the long side. I am with you in tending to prefer medieval and early Renaissance stuff to the High Renaissance era of Palestrina.
At the time of typing I am listening to the Early Music Consort of London's 'Music of the Gothic Era' anthology on Archiv (mediaeval repertoire of the sort you've mentioned - Léonin etc.). The recordings date from 1975, and are considered unorthodox by today's standards (e.g. mixing in instruments with the voices), but they were a pioneering ensemble, and have lost none of the freshness.
I'm no expert on early music vocal performance (maybe the now-rarely-sighted Fearandpanic would have something more erudite to say on that score), but the groups you cite above (Tallis and Hilliard) are generally seen as belonging to an English choral tradition that favours an unemotive, even restrained delivery. Some prefer the more vigorous style of some continental European groups: Todd McComb of the Early Music FAQ has written quite a few notes on the varying approaches, but he can be quite pedantic, and has a perverse habit of denouncing widely-acclaimed recordings and instead recommending ones by obscure artists which are usually out of print (see his list of favourite performances).
As for other composers and groups to add to your list, well, there are a lot of interesting Franco-Flemish composers who fall chronologically between Machaut and Josquin: most importantly Dufay and Ockeghem, but also Binchois, Obrecht, Busnois, etc. Here is a particular recording of lesser-known material I've enjoyed, about to be re-released at budget price (well, budget in UK currency):
Details here. It's on the Hyperion label, which has released a substantial number of good early music titles over the years. Another group on their roster, whom you may have come across, is Gothic Voices, who produced a lot of surveys of mediaeval song throughout the 80s and 90s. For polyphonic sacred stuff, I highly recommend this:
Missa Caput, an anonymous English mass from the 15th C - you are right that anonymous material can often throw up the biggest surprises. This actually appears to have gone out of print, but I'm sure a budget reissue is on the horizon.
Also worth investigating are the Virgin Veritas 2-CD reissues, generally of a pretty high quality. Here's a good secular one by a French group - chansons by Binchois and Lescurel:
There's more to add, but this post is already on the long side. I am with you in tending to prefer medieval and early Renaissance stuff to the High Renaissance era of Palestrina.
Last edited by P. Wretch on Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Early Music
Nothing to contribute beyond seconding Dufay, except to say I remember distinctly discovering von Bingen, around '86, when one had to search far and wee for cassettes of 'a feather on the breath of god', so so beautiful.
http://crowwithnomouth.wordpress.com/
Experimental music should be something that suggests a way of organizing your thinking, your attitude toward the world, which suggests that the world could be different.
Christian Wolff 2014
Experimental music should be something that suggests a way of organizing your thinking, your attitude toward the world, which suggests that the world could be different.
Christian Wolff 2014
Re: Early Music
There's also an lp in the Unesco 'Musical Sources' series which features Sicilian music of Easter /Holy Week. That's an absolute killer. Totally morbid.faultsleep wrote:
there is an Ocora disc of Byzantine chant from Greece, 'Great Octotonal Chant to the Virgin,' by Theodore Vasilikos Ensemble which is a bit post-baroque period in origin. Less powerful to my ears than the above mentioned, actually kind of sounds close to Buddhist vocal music in its texture, but may still be of note here.
.
Re: Early Music
That's all good Jon - I was hoping this thread would catch FAP's eye and lure him back; he was one of the strongest contributors to our little community and very much missed.jon abbey wrote:yes.
sorry for all of these off-topic posts, snailed, I'm sure mark will move them when he's back and settled later today.
I haven't found any other early music threads, P. Wretch, but there is this nice thread on recordings in historical temperaments: http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1766 - if you find any others, please link to them here.
The restrained, unemotive vocal delivery is definitely a quality I'm looking for, but I'll surely give those other ensembles a look. To me, the music seems to have plenty of emotion inherent in it; just presenting the pieces as clearly as possible without much excess from the performer is one of the qualities that attracts me to this music. The over-the-top vibrato and performance style that developed in later Western music (especially opera) is a big turn off. Not to mention the giant massed sound of large choirs which became more common later on. I prefer the small sound of single voices against one another.
I'm also looking for instrumental early music ensembles that explore similar qualities: clear intonation, little to no vibrato, single instruments against one another, and a plus if it's performed on period instruments. One ensemble I found that I've really enjoyed is Hespèrion XX.
Anyway- some nice pieces, composers, and recordings to go through here. Thanks for the tips gents!
Also interested in any modern takes on some of this stuff. I remember reading on IHP that Keith Rowe did something based on a Leonin piece a while back - or am I hallucinating? I'd be curious as to how that was related.
Re: Early Music
I could have sworn Hatta started one once, but either I'm imagining it or it seems to have disappeared from the archives.snailed wrote:I haven't found any other early music threads, P. Wretch
Agreed about vibrato and the 'mass' choir sound, although you shouldn't find either of these on most decent early music recordings (avoid the ones recorded in large cathedrals). 'Intimacy' is very much the fashion. But I would keep checking out the back catalogue of The Tallis Scholars, since they seem to meet your criteria very well.
If you like Hespèrion XX, two comparable groups are Fretwork and Phantasm, both viol consorts with a leaning towards English repertoire of the late 16th/early 17th centuries. Fretwork have commissioned various works by contemporary composers over the years, but not ultra-modernist ones. Also, Richard Pinnell mentions somewhere in the archive that Keith Rowe involved the Rose Consort of Viols (who have recorded a lot for Naxos) to play from a Cardew graphic score on one occasion, so yes, Mr. Rowe clearly has interests in this direction.
This is a different tangent, but if you are interested in a more 'popular' use of early instruments, I recommend the two albums by the English folk singer Shirley Collins with arrangements by her sister Dolly Collins, 'Anthems in Eden' (1969) and 'Love, Death & the Lady' (1970) - now re-released as a compilation called 'The Harvest Years'. The solo singing is backed by musicians from the Early Music Consort, although it is all completely 'unhistorical', since most folk songs post-date the use of those instruments by several hundred years. The effect is bizarre, like walking into the 19th century transfused with the 15th.
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Dohol
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Re: Early Music
Fretwork is going to be giving a concert at the University here ( free, no admission price.. ) in a couple of weeks. I know I'm going..
I love this stuff..
I love this stuff..
“In a kind of middle-aged crisis, it dawned upon me that there was a possibility that music might not even be an art form.”
Morton Feldman
http://soundcloud.com/doug-holbrook
Morton Feldman
http://soundcloud.com/doug-holbrook
Re: Early Music
Absolutely love those Shirley and Dolly records - she's one of my favorite folksingers. There is definitely a kinship with this music there, whether it is the use of modes, the instrumentation, or otherwise.P. Wretch wrote:
This is a different tangent, but if you are interested in a more 'popular' use of early instruments, I recommend the two albums by the English folk singer Shirley Collins with arrangements by her sister Dolly Collins, 'Anthems in Eden' (1969) and 'Love, Death & the Lady' (1970) - now re-released as a compilation called 'The Harvest Years'. The solo singing is backed by musicians from the Early Music Consort, although it is all completely 'unhistorical', since most folk songs post-date the use of those instruments by several hundred years. The effect is bizarre, like walking into the 19th century transfused with the 15th.
I haven't heard of the Rose Consort, Fretwork, or Phantasm. And I will definitely keep digging into the Tallis' back catalog as I've enjoyed their recordings so far. Thanks very much for the informative posts, P. Wretch - much appreciated!
Re: Early Music
there was this thread about classical music in general: http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=303P. Wretch wrote:I could have sworn Hatta started one once, but either I'm imagining it or it seems to have disappeared from the archives.snailed wrote:I haven't found any other early music threads, P. Wretch
Re: Early Music
if this is the 14th century one, it was him and Toshi and Robin Hayward and Lucio Capece in Berlin sometime in the last year, if that helps your search quest. Robin and Lucio did the composition (not for the original instruments, but for theirs), and Keith/Toshi did some kind of underpinning, but that's all I know.snailed wrote:I remember reading on IHP that Keith Rowe did something based on a Leonin piece a while back - or am I hallucinating? I'd be curious as to how that was related.
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simon reynell
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Re: Early Music
P.Wretch wrote: "Agreed about vibrato and the 'mass' choir sound, although you shouldn't find either of these on most decent early music recordings (avoid the ones recorded in large cathedrals). 'Intimacy' is very much the fashion."
I third the preference for the intimacy of small vocal ensembles in which each part is taken by a single voice (or at most 2 voices) that can be clearly heard. And I too dislike vibrato in classical singing, and the grandiose nature of large choirs in cathedrals.
As to particular vocal ensembles, I generally prefer groups that use counter-tenors for the high parts rather than female sopranos (The Orlando Consort, Hilliard Ensemble, Binchois Consort, Henry's Eight, Pro Cantione Antiqua). It's not at all that I'm an 'authentic music' purist; I just love the sound of good counter-tenors. I particularly like the Orlando Consort, partly because they tend to focus on the Franco-Flemish composers who are my favourites (Busnois, Josquin, Obrecht, Ockeghem, Compere, Dufay etc). Another Franco-Flemish composer who I really love is Nicolas Gombert, a pupil of Josquin who wrote complex pieces for six parts or more and wove some incredibly dense webs of sound into his music.
I also enjoy some of the early English composers (Dunstaple, Frye, Fayrfax and Tavener), though it's difficult to find versions of some of these that use counter-tenors, as the treble parts (originally written for young boys) are so high that counter-tenors can't quite get up there.
Renaissance polyphony is by some way my favourite music until Webern comes along, and I know I'm not alone in this. I think there is some kind of sympathy between early polyphony and avant-garde music, and it's not simply that neither uses the dominant tonal system. A lot of contemporary classical composers have looked back to this era much more than, say, the romantic or classical periods. A couple of years ago the excellent Kairos record label produced a double cd with new pieces written by over 40 contemporary composers, all based on John Tavener's famous 'In Nomine' ('The Witten In Nomine Broken Consort Book') As you'd expect it's a mixed bag, but well worth listening to IMO. Kairos also recently issued the lovely Dufay Bearbeitungen (reworkings of Dufay songs) by the much under-rated German composer Isabel Mundry.
Finally I add my voice to those who miss the contributions of Fear-and-Panic to this forum.
I third the preference for the intimacy of small vocal ensembles in which each part is taken by a single voice (or at most 2 voices) that can be clearly heard. And I too dislike vibrato in classical singing, and the grandiose nature of large choirs in cathedrals.
As to particular vocal ensembles, I generally prefer groups that use counter-tenors for the high parts rather than female sopranos (The Orlando Consort, Hilliard Ensemble, Binchois Consort, Henry's Eight, Pro Cantione Antiqua). It's not at all that I'm an 'authentic music' purist; I just love the sound of good counter-tenors. I particularly like the Orlando Consort, partly because they tend to focus on the Franco-Flemish composers who are my favourites (Busnois, Josquin, Obrecht, Ockeghem, Compere, Dufay etc). Another Franco-Flemish composer who I really love is Nicolas Gombert, a pupil of Josquin who wrote complex pieces for six parts or more and wove some incredibly dense webs of sound into his music.
I also enjoy some of the early English composers (Dunstaple, Frye, Fayrfax and Tavener), though it's difficult to find versions of some of these that use counter-tenors, as the treble parts (originally written for young boys) are so high that counter-tenors can't quite get up there.
Renaissance polyphony is by some way my favourite music until Webern comes along, and I know I'm not alone in this. I think there is some kind of sympathy between early polyphony and avant-garde music, and it's not simply that neither uses the dominant tonal system. A lot of contemporary classical composers have looked back to this era much more than, say, the romantic or classical periods. A couple of years ago the excellent Kairos record label produced a double cd with new pieces written by over 40 contemporary composers, all based on John Tavener's famous 'In Nomine' ('The Witten In Nomine Broken Consort Book') As you'd expect it's a mixed bag, but well worth listening to IMO. Kairos also recently issued the lovely Dufay Bearbeitungen (reworkings of Dufay songs) by the much under-rated German composer Isabel Mundry.
Finally I add my voice to those who miss the contributions of Fear-and-Panic to this forum.
Re: Early Music
Yeah, that thread doesn't have anything to do with this at all. Thanks for looking around, though. I'm quite surprised a thread this general even existed.(<oo>) wrote:there was this thread about classical music in general: http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=303P. Wretch wrote:I could have sworn Hatta started one once, but either I'm imagining it or it seems to have disappeared from the archives.snailed wrote:I haven't found any other early music threads, P. Wretch
... and thanks for the tip on the Rowe project, Jon.
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Richard Pinnell
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Re: Early Music
On a vaguely related note I saw a viol consort perform a few pages of Cardew's Treatise a couple of years back midway through a concert of 15th and 16th Century music. One of the more unusual concerts I've ever attended!jon abbey wrote:if this is the 14th century one, it was him and Toshi and Robin Hayward and Lucio Capece in Berlin sometime in the last year, if that helps your search quest. Robin and Lucio did the composition (not for the original instruments, but for theirs), and Keith/Toshi did some kind of underpinning, but that's all I know.snailed wrote:I remember reading on IHP that Keith Rowe did something based on a Leonin piece a while back - or am I hallucinating? I'd be curious as to how that was related.
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Lucio Capece
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Re: Early Music
Hello Snalled.
Hildegard von Bingen, Leonin, Perotin , Machaut, Josquin, and Gesualdo are fascinating composers. There are many others, but these ones already deserve our attention like some of the most beautiful music that we have knowledge.
There is a less known period that I think that is also incredible and is the so called Trecento. The most famous composer in this period was Francesco Landini. There is an Ensemble called Mala Punica, directed by Pedro Memelsdorff that is deeply focused on searching in this period. Performing with erudition and with a very modern vision at the same time. I like all their albums, but specially their last one called Faventina. I saw them live recently and it was wonderful.
Other albums or composers that I like ( I allow myself to include Bach, but played with original instrumentation):
-Thomas Tallis
The Lamentations of Jeremiah
- Robert De Visee ( played by Hopkinson Smith)
- Sylvius Leopold Weiss ( also by Hopkinson Smith)
-Bach: The Art of Fugue - Canons
Musica Antiqua Köln - Reinhard Goebel
I do not know what versions you have of Leonin. There is not so much on CD. I have these ones ( two albums), that I love.
Magister Leoninus
Sacred Music from 12th-century Paris
Red Byrd / Cappella Amsterdam - John Potter & Richard Wistreich
Hyperion
There is a DVD release where the Hilliard Ensemble performs Perotin and several musicologists talk about Perotin and how it can be performed . I find the musicologists roll a bit over theatrical, but I guess that they do it to keep the movie alive.
I think that the DVD has some beautiful parts and interesting observations, anyway, the name is Hilliard Ensemble - Thy Kiss Of A Divine Nature - The Contemporary Perotin DVD.
About the project with Keith, Toshi and Robin. This was the idea:
-24th May 2008. House Musik Festival Berlin.
Keith Rowe- Toshimaru Nakamura- Robin Hayward- Lucio Capece quartet.
"Evocations"
The music of Leonin treated as a middle-age painting.
Kolmarer Strasse 5 / Museumsverbund Pankow / prenzlauer 227
Léonin (* um 1150; † um 1210)
http://www.kammerensemble.de
Léonin (* um 1150; † um 1210)
Medieval Icons are typically paintings on wood, often small, though some in churches and monasteries may be as large as a table top.
After ten or eight centuries in many of these paintings the background surfaces can be seen as part of the figure itself, coming out with spots that almost do not allow to see the original figure, but only partially, and almost nothing in some cases.
This process is produced by the fact that some parts of the painting have been somehow deleted by time, or by organisms living in the wood or damaged in wars, let´s say by the work that the wood and time made on the painting. The wood, time... the background, in a small or a table top dimension, as an alive element that modifies the figure.
The group will perform Leonin´s music taking the process that modifies these paintings as an interpretation source.
So, if you read music scores, some years ago has been published a huge compilation ( several big books, very expensive ) but that you can find in some public libraries, or universities. It does really worth to read and try to play this music. The name is "Le Magnus liber organi de Notre-Dame de Paris."
I´m not an erudit at all. There is an universe there, I have this in mind now, all the best! l
Hildegard von Bingen, Leonin, Perotin , Machaut, Josquin, and Gesualdo are fascinating composers. There are many others, but these ones already deserve our attention like some of the most beautiful music that we have knowledge.
There is a less known period that I think that is also incredible and is the so called Trecento. The most famous composer in this period was Francesco Landini. There is an Ensemble called Mala Punica, directed by Pedro Memelsdorff that is deeply focused on searching in this period. Performing with erudition and with a very modern vision at the same time. I like all their albums, but specially their last one called Faventina. I saw them live recently and it was wonderful.
Other albums or composers that I like ( I allow myself to include Bach, but played with original instrumentation):
-Thomas Tallis
The Lamentations of Jeremiah
- Robert De Visee ( played by Hopkinson Smith)
- Sylvius Leopold Weiss ( also by Hopkinson Smith)
-Bach: The Art of Fugue - Canons
Musica Antiqua Köln - Reinhard Goebel
I do not know what versions you have of Leonin. There is not so much on CD. I have these ones ( two albums), that I love.
Magister Leoninus
Sacred Music from 12th-century Paris
Red Byrd / Cappella Amsterdam - John Potter & Richard Wistreich
Hyperion
There is a DVD release where the Hilliard Ensemble performs Perotin and several musicologists talk about Perotin and how it can be performed . I find the musicologists roll a bit over theatrical, but I guess that they do it to keep the movie alive.
I think that the DVD has some beautiful parts and interesting observations, anyway, the name is Hilliard Ensemble - Thy Kiss Of A Divine Nature - The Contemporary Perotin DVD.
About the project with Keith, Toshi and Robin. This was the idea:
-24th May 2008. House Musik Festival Berlin.
Keith Rowe- Toshimaru Nakamura- Robin Hayward- Lucio Capece quartet.
"Evocations"
The music of Leonin treated as a middle-age painting.
Kolmarer Strasse 5 / Museumsverbund Pankow / prenzlauer 227
Léonin (* um 1150; † um 1210)
http://www.kammerensemble.de
Léonin (* um 1150; † um 1210)
Medieval Icons are typically paintings on wood, often small, though some in churches and monasteries may be as large as a table top.
After ten or eight centuries in many of these paintings the background surfaces can be seen as part of the figure itself, coming out with spots that almost do not allow to see the original figure, but only partially, and almost nothing in some cases.
This process is produced by the fact that some parts of the painting have been somehow deleted by time, or by organisms living in the wood or damaged in wars, let´s say by the work that the wood and time made on the painting. The wood, time... the background, in a small or a table top dimension, as an alive element that modifies the figure.
The group will perform Leonin´s music taking the process that modifies these paintings as an interpretation source.
So, if you read music scores, some years ago has been published a huge compilation ( several big books, very expensive ) but that you can find in some public libraries, or universities. It does really worth to read and try to play this music. The name is "Le Magnus liber organi de Notre-Dame de Paris."
I´m not an erudit at all. There is an universe there, I have this in mind now, all the best! l
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Richard Pinnell
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Re: Early Music
Lucio! Great to see you here, and thanks for that, the Evocations concert sounds great
Re: Early Music
welcome, Lucio!
Re: Early Music
it does. look at page 4. i remembered because i started talking about early music (mistakenly calling it "old" musicsnailed wrote:Yeah, that thread doesn't have anything to do with this at all. Thanks for looking around, though. I'm quite surprised a thread this general even existed.(<oo>) wrote:there was this thread about classical music in general: http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=303
). i think that's what P. Wretch is referring to.this is a great record: http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/emi99925.htm. i've got it on vinyl, but i see it has been reissued on cd.
Re: Early Music
Well, that's the correct name in German isn't it (Alte Musik)? The French call it musique ancienne, and then there's also the phrase used by a Harmonia Mundi sub-label, 'musique d'abord' ('first music'?). All of these terms are very Eurocentric, because there's surviving stuff from Asia which is much older.(<oo>) wrote:(mistakenly calling it "old" music
That classical thread wasn't the one I was thinking of - I distinctly remember posting the image of a Fretwork album cover in some discussion, but the post doesn't seem to exist anymore (some were lost in the recent transition). Not that it matters.
Good additions from Simon and Lucio above.