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Currently I'm fascinated by certain sequencer-based earlier D.A.F.-tracks and by Bailey's guitar, drum'n'bass.

I fumbled around myself to produce bass-tracks to play-along, and found there's lots of wonderful possibilities (and figured I don't know much about the jungle/drum'n'bass-genre).


Anyway... a fast bass-track combined with live-drums can easily achieve an energy that's close to punk, or some free jazz-specific drive; and so I figured there has to be some drum'n'bass/jungle stuff going into "experimental" or noisy territory - does anybody here know something that might be relevant? Then please let me know about it.

i'm rather surprised to find we have no significant thread about this already, as breakcore (fast-paced frenetic dnb 'subgenre' currently vogue amount the sweaty) at some point accounted for a large listening segments of some IHM denizens.

in short, there's a ton. from merzbow's beat-oriented excursion to the out end of the warp catalog to oval and the algorithm crowd to cartoon breakmunching to... well yeah there's a lot.

say more about what you are looking for? or should we just start dropping names?

m

mudd wrote:in short, there's a ton. from merzbow's beat-oriented excursion to the out end of the warp catalog to oval and the algorithm crowd to cartoon breakmunching to... well yeah there's a lot.

Definitely. I mean... really, DnB (and Breakcore) is a pretty experimental genre in the first place... Unless you mean specifically "Drum & Bass" without going into all the "glitch" territory and "genre mixing" of a lot of artists. (for lack of a better phrase)

Kid 606 is a good "noisy" example, though.

I came up with stuff I enjoyed when for instance taking a repetitive distorted bass-pattern in fast tempo, combined with trashy Bennink-inspired complex doubletime drumming on top - with a clear noisy wall-of-sound-tendency (in a way reminiscent of the typical sound on Bailey's d'n'b-CD, only with all knobs on 10, so to speak).

I figured an energetic rhythm-track like that (with or without live-drums) combined with lively sound/noise-textures could achieve a nice quality. So something with an obvious direct energy would be nice to listen to for a start.


When being consequent about the rhythmic desorientation usually going on in the drums, one could create bass-patterns in odd meters - and not even necessarily repetitive ones. That would be an aspect also of interest to me for a start.

After listening to Kid 606 on MySpace, I'd say I'm in search of something more raw... stuff closer to free jazz energy. Or... I wonder if there's something out there with thick massive textures, maybe like Elliott Sharp's Carbon bands sometimes created (so yes - I think "genre-mixing", in the end).

Squarepusher ?

JF wrote:I came up with stuff I enjoyed when for instance taking a repetitive distorted bass-pattern in fast tempo, combined with trashy Bennink-inspired complex doubletime drumming on top - with a clear noisy wall-of-sound-tendency (in a way reminiscent of the typical sound on Bailey's d'n'b-CD, only with all knobs on 10, so to speak).

i want to hear this, or other stuff that sounds like that.

JF wrote: I figured an energetic rhythm-track like that (with or without live-drums) combined with lively sound/noise-textures could achieve a nice quality. So something with an obvious direct energy would be nice to listen to for a start.

Definitely try the first long track, "Planarchy," on Strong Language by the quartet Lunge (Gail Brand, Phil Durrant, Pat Thomas, Mark Sanders). Brand's trombone and the electronics provide those wobbly bass rumbles, Sanders the skittery rhythmic patterns.

Noisy, experimental, breakcore/hardcore, etc:

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and of course, Isolate records has put out some of the best music of this sort, http://isolaterecords.com/isolate.html" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false; before the untimely and tragic passing of the labels founder, Wai Cheng, a.k.a. Optic

One can find some good mixes/mp3s here: http://www.pinksox.ca/" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false; including live sets by Optic, Flourescent Grey, and some of Toronto's finest

Squarepusher... I watched some clips on YouTube - I don't know if those had been typical, but what I saw seemed somewhat funk/jazzrock-based (with electronic beats in the background), and not what I'm looking for.

WindowFaller wrote:

JF wrote:I came up with stuff I enjoyed when for instance taking a repetitive distorted bass-pattern in fast tempo, combined with trashy Bennink-inspired complex doubletime drumming on top - with a clear noisy wall-of-sound-tendency (in a way reminiscent of the typical sound on Bailey's d'n'b-CD, only with all knobs on 10, so to speak).

i want to hear this, or other stuff that sounds like that.

What I described is what I came up with in my rehearsal room in the last two days. And I want to hear more like that as well - that's why I created this thread.


Re Lunge's Strong Language - seems interesting anyway, judging from the info on the emanem-site. I wanted to order some emanems anyway soon, so I'll likely put that into the basket as well. Thanks.


Re Joda - thanks. After reading "breakcore" in mudd's response, I googled, and found some stuff myself - including some of those you listed (and including a promising video-trailer). I'm downloading the mp3s now.

This stuff used to be my no.1 vice, but for now I will offer one name and one label:

Venetian Snares. Head and shoulders above the crowd (except perhaps the aforementioned Mr. Jenkinson)

Peace Off (france) and all its myriad offshoot imprints

venetian snares is pretty awesome, but most of the recent stuff i've heard from him has lost a step or two of the playfulness i would have have been trying to think of. sort of like aphex twin and squarepusher (who has some material that might appeal more to the original poster, but not any of the last couple things), they've moved on to more developed but often less interesting material.

at least, that's my feeling.

i'm not very familiar with peace off, i should have a look at their catalog.

m

since we have a somewhat related thread... what's the story on dubstep? i hear lots of enthusiasm but have yet to like any of the material...

m

mudd wrote: breakcore... currently vogue amount the sweaty
m

Actually I have found in the UK at least that the breakcore vogue was short sharp and thoroughly enjoyable. And that the arrival of Dubstep on the scene rather stole its thunder. Plenty of artists including Snares, Drop the Lime and frenetic beat driven labels like Planet Mu were wooed by the new london sound. Similarly clubs such as Bristol's Black Swan which used to host the sweaty Toxic Dancehall (now re-branded Bashout and my vote for best club night on our little island) are increasingly packing the floors with slow Sublow. Not that i don't like Dubstep, there's some ace material out there, but a whole night of it would, i suspect, bore me.

As with all new bandwagons a huge glut of stuff has come very fast, making it hard to find the stuff you want. The Hyperdub label is consistently reliable (Kode 9 et al) but maybe mixtapes are the place to go in this genre.. the famous problem with this music is that there ain't no point listening to it at home, unless you own an 8K rig have both everything glued/screwed down and bass-loving neighbours.

mudd wrote:since we have a somewhat related thread... what's the story on dubstep? i hear lots of enthusiasm but have yet to like any of the material...

m

There's some strong stuff, but a lot of shit too. Burial's debut is strong, but it doesn't reflect the large majority of the dubstep available. Skream's full length CD is good. The "Box of Dub: Dubstep & Future Dub" has some neat tracks by some staples (Digital Mystikz) and some new guys (Sub Version). The DS scene is largely made of 12"s and very few strong albums thus far, therefore, compilations are usually a good way to go.

JF wrote:After listening to Kid 606 on MySpace, I'd say I'm in search of something more raw... stuff closer to free jazz energy.

What you want is basically anything released on Inperspective Records, for starters. Some of the finest music made in any genre in the '00s if you ask me, and definitely raw and experimental. Try to get the mix CD that came free with an issue of Knowledge magazine back in the fall of '04. It's a BRILLIANT mix (both the tracks and the mixing skills), was mixed by Equinox, who is one of the finest dnb DJs ever, and one of the most austere producers in leftfield dnb. Inperspective tends to focus on stuff that is basically by/for drum connoisseurs -- absolutely mental beat construction from 100% sampled hits, hence very organic yet absolutely futuroid at the same time ... one of the best things about dubstep's popularity is how it siphons off the machismo/testosterone from micro-genres such as leftfield dnb, in other words people in leftfield (Inperspective Records, Counter Intelligence, Subtle Audio, Outsider, Exegene, Offshore, Lightless, Covert Operations, etc etc - all labels worth checking) only make this stuff because they absolutely love it - the bucks and fame and hype are elsewhere. Avant folks always seem to namecheck Squarepusher but a lot of that stuff has always struck me as overfiddly-clever and quite shallow ... squarepusher was outclassed by loads of people making jungle, then and now ... in my humble opinion ...

JF- i would recommend Aphasic Bass & Superstructure EP (Ambush)

you can hear samples here:

http://www.rhinoplex.org/wrecked/" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;

do a search for Aphasic- i don't think the record is in print anymore. other stuff on Ambush too- not easy to find these days though...

Wrecked is a good place to hear samples (and buy!) many of the names mentioned in this thread- i love a lot of the Peace Off (and offshoots) label releases- i had most of the 12"s up until about 2004- then lost track.

Wow - that's a lot of material - thanks. I checked out some samples on label's sites, and there's some lovely stuff among that. And I figured those live sets from PinkSox make up several hours to get a detailed impression.

The Squarepusher-tracks I referred to earlier are from concerts, where the focus was on his bass plaing... but now I found other more edgy stuff as well (so it seems to make more sense to me now to find him in this context).

Squarepusher brings me to an aspect I'm interested in (and what brings me definitely to "genre-mixing", as I start to figure out after having heard many samples) - having mixed "hardcore-dnb" with instrumental playing.
Or even the whole thing approached from the other side: ensembles playing with the rhythmic stringency of jungle - and I don't mean fast fusion or something, but clearly electronica/breakbeat-inspired playing.
If I remember right, E.S.T. has moments of that, and I can imagine there are many hip modern jazz bands approaching things like that. But no... then again I'm looking for much more energetic stuff, coming more from the free jazz/improv/noise-direction (if something like that exists).

JF wrote:Squarepusher brings me to an aspect I'm interested in (and what brings me definitely to "genre-mixing", as I start to figure out after having heard many samples) - having mixed "hardcore-dnb" with instrumental playing.
energetic stuff, coming more from the free jazz/improv/noise-direction (if something like that exists).

I'm not sure if I know what you're looking for (I usually don't listen to d'n'b artists), but maybe it's Muslimgauze, or Scorn, or Spaceways, or Spring Heel Jack, or even ... David Bowie ("Earthling").
I'm under the impression that i've forgotten someone really importatnt.

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