Feldman and Scelsi

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kp*
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Post by kp* »

free math wrote:anyone ever heard this recording of Untitled Composition / Patterns in a Chromatic Field?
http://www.dofoundation.com/morton_mortfeldman.html" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;
never heard of this label before. they also have some sort of feldman dvd.
I have that one. It is awesome. It was out of print for a while i think. I heard those guys play that piece live too, at the society for ethical culture in NYC back in 1992 or so on an early Bang on a Can festival. They rocked that piece. The audience was speechless. One of the best Feldman performances i have seen. Milton Babbitt sat in front of me.

-kp8--

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free math
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Post by free math »

cool, well they're 15 euros postpaid.

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kp*
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Post by kp* »

free math wrote:cool, well they're 15 euros postpaid.
i treasure my copy. I have the one zorn put out too, but haven't listened to it much. I should dig it out and see how it compares.

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Post by free math »

this came in under a week, definitely worth it. seems like a faster performance than even the tzadik. sound is good.

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Post by kp* »

free math wrote:this came in under a week, definitely worth it. seems like a faster performance than even the tzadik. sound is good.
The off kilter rhythms are crisp and nicely articulated. You can't do this piece wishy washy. I like how they tackle those opening phrases. Just IMO, YMMV, etc. & co.

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Notice Recordings
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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Notice Recordings »

Nothing to do with Feldman here :

I recently finished reading Frances-Marie Uitti's very engaging "essay" of sorts ( http://www.uitti.org/scelsi.html ) regarding Scelsi's improvisations, his tape recordings, and the tape preservations with which she was closely involved. I wonder what's become of those tapes and their respective transfers. I personally am very eager to hear any of these recordings, and certainly the ones using the ondiola. He recorded over 700 reels of himself just improvising in an altered, meditative state, channeling something he says could never be achieved in common reality. Does anyone think a label would ever entertain releasing these as archival recordings ? Would it even be possible ? I wonder if the ownership of the recordings would allow this. I feel if this was done properly, a wonderful series of these recordings could be released. Certainly they were not transferred to DAT simply for storage purposes ; someone must have (had ?) the inclination to eventually publicise them.

If anyone has any information regarding Scelsi's improvisations and their recordings, other than the simple fact that they occurred, please share your knowledge.

Thanks

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bedouin
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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by bedouin »

Although not directly related to Scelsi's original improvisation tapes, there is an excellent (and recent) recording on Wergo, "Suono Rotondo", that includes several improvised pieces for trio, paying homage to Scelsi's use of improvisation on top of bare-bones compositions.

more here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/giacinto-s ... no-rotondo


this disc also includes a fantastic version of "Ko-Tha, Tre danze di Shiva", played with prepared guitar.

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Notice Recordings
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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Notice Recordings »

Thanks for that. I haven't heard of this recording, and I really enjoy Svoboda and Scodanibbio's work. I don't know Kiedaisch, but any percussionist in this area is sure to be an interest for me.

I am still finding it hard to believe that there aren't any releases available anywhere of Scelsi's own recordings during this period in his life. Does anyone else share this desire to hear these or am I romanticising them too much ?

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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by J.F. »

I remembered there's one improvisation in the Scelsi-discography - well, one I'm aware of. And I eventually found it. It's on a CD collecting Scelsi-works for flute and/or piano. One of the tracks is Scelsi improvising together with Carine Levine. The track is titled "Krishna e Radha", taped in 1986.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/uf76aw
- not sure I'd like to listen through a complete CD of that kind of material though.

From stuff I read years ago, I got the impression that certain parts in european contemporary composed music circles wrinkled their noses seriously when it was revealed how important improvisation has been as a basis also for some of Scelsi's written oeuvre. And as if that weren't bad enough, there were assistants who eventually wrote down the notes, as I understand - hey, that's just not how "real" classical composers work! - I don't know... but maybe that critical reception could be motivation for the Scelsi-estate-people not to delve deeper into that facet of Scelsi's work?
.
.

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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Wombatz »

Here's what's being done with the tapes.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 2.2007.037

There've been rumors for years (probably longer, but I wouldn't know) that those will finally be released shortly . . . I've heard new music pianists tell stories of other new music pianists who had the chance to hear some of them and were completely floored. Still, I'd guess they're not available because they're not very good, so you don't really want to know. Whatever the details of the process, I fear he simply was a proper great composer.

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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Dan Warburton »

J.F. wrote:I remembered there's one improvisation in the Scelsi-discography - well, one I'm aware of. And I eventually found it. It's on a CD collecting Scelsi-works for flute and/or piano. One of the tracks is Scelsi improvising together with Carine Levine. The track is titled "Krishna e Radha", taped in 1986.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/uf76aw
- not sure I'd like to listen through a complete CD of that kind of material though.
Agreed. Pretty, but nothing special.
http://www.paristransatlantic.com
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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by rrepeatt »

J.F. wrote:And as if that weren't bad enough, there were assistants who eventually wrote down the notes, as I understand - hey, that's just not how "real" classical composers work!
There's a Feldman anecdote about this - he's trying to get his publisher to sign Scelsi, to put out his scores, and the publisher is opposed to it and brings up the authorship issue: "He doesn't even write them himself". And Feldman goes "Well, why don't you find out who does it and sign them" :D

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Wombatz
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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Wombatz »

Listening to Scelsi's Okanagon from here:
http://highponytail.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... -1982.html
A little slower, I think, and sonically more reduced than it's often played (less funny noises) and somehow almost with a 4AD vibe after the second minute. Love it.

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Wombatz
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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Wombatz »

Wombatz wrote:Here's what's being done with the tapes.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 2.2007.037

There've been rumors for years (probably longer, but I wouldn't know) that those will finally be released shortly . . . I've heard new music pianists tell stories of other new music pianists who had the chance to hear some of them and were completely floored. Still, I'd guess they're not available because they're not very good, so you don't really want to know. Whatever the details of the process, I fear he simply was a proper great composer.
PS: You can now travel to the foundation and listen to the digitally archived tapes there (at least if you have heavy credentials, though I don't know if that's necessary).

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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Wombatz »

Heard Steffen Schleiermacher play Scelsi's Suite no 9 Ttai yesterday ... I'm actually not much a fan of Schleiermacher outside his Cage (and especially not of his Feldman), but this was great (and much better than the Hinterhäuser CD version which is the only one I'd heard). I'd say he pushed Scelsi toward the post-war avant-garde, did not play the many repeats as repeats but as sounds to be placed in the moment, with no atmospherics, no esoterics, somewhat raw and very impressive... (By the way he had gone to listen to the original tapes (see above) but said it just made him play the pieces differently.) I don't know if the CD that came out early this year is as good, need to check.

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Post by Hayao Yamaneko »

Some pretty nice discussion (& a little bit of cock measuring) at the start of this thread, even if I'm definitely in the "can't see the connection camp". A couple of nice Feldman quotes I didn't know re: microtonality.
Shame that this Richard Barrett thread is down now, any idea if the forum got archived somewhere else?

user_484 wrote:this was a great thread kicked off by scelsi-scholar / composer richard barrett:

http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=396.0" onclick= "window.open(this.href);return false;

first two pages are basically barrett vs. a few people who find scelsi's 'mysticism' derivative and shallow, but even that's an interesting exchange, and at one point barrett quotes personal correspondence w/ frances marie uitti on the exact nature of the ondioline-esque synth & multi-track recorder Scelsi used to craft his improvisations which he'd then turn over for transcription. more information on Scelsi's method on that forum's thread than in any other article or resource on him I've seen.
That last line has me back on my old saw: I do mourn the death of forums. It didn't feel uncommon that you could say something similar about a forum thread 5-10 years ago. Culture changes tho, "get over it grandad", etc.

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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Lao Tsu Ben »

kp* wrote:Feldman once, when asked about Arvo P?rt said, "I would like to pull that guy's beard.".
Is there some specific book that collects them, or at least most of them? That quote is particularly funny, and I think I would more readily read that than listening to one of his string quartets nowadays..
kp* wrote:Seriously, there is no end to the funny Feldman stories. I have dozens. I didn't study with Feldman, but did study with Wolff and Bunita Marcus and others who knew Feldman well and i swear someone has to collect all these bon mots into a "Feldman Remembered" type book. Everyone who knew Feldman has a good Feldman story. Everyone. The dude was funny. Unless of course, you were on the receiving end of one of his verbal jabs, then, maybe not so fun.
Ok I answered before reading that. That should teach me patience.

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Re: Feldman and Scelsi

Post by Tanner »

Lao Tsu Ben wrote:
kp* wrote:Feldman once, when asked about Arvo P?rt said, "I would like to pull that guy's beard.".
Is there some specific book that collects them, or at least most of them? That quote is particularly funny, and I think I would more readily read that than listening to one of his string quartets nowadays..
kp* wrote:Seriously, there is no end to the funny Feldman stories. I have dozens. I didn't study with Feldman, but did study with Wolff and Bunita Marcus and others who knew Feldman well and i swear someone has to collect all these bon mots into a "Feldman Remembered" type book. Everyone who knew Feldman has a good Feldman story. Everyone. The dude was funny. Unless of course, you were on the receiving end of one of his verbal jabs, then, maybe not so fun.
Ok I answered before reading that. That should teach me patience.
Oh man, I come back here, and this thread is back. Badass. Great misunderstandings and blow ups! I've reread a bit of it, and I want more awesome Feldman quotes too. I didn't have much to add to the discussion then and I don't now, but maybe that's good.

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