what's the most critically acclaimed band...

[schiksalgemeinschaft]

I think A Thousand Leaves, NYC FLowers and Murray Street are their best stretch, with MS being my favorite album, one of my favorite albums in general even. What they did afterwords is better than most other alternative albums that come out, but that's hardly a good standard, so yeah, they're dull. A bit uninspired even, all that rehash.

[sevenarts]

I haven't given Rather Ripped much of a chance, admittedly, but yeah SY's last few albums (after the fantastic Murray Street) have seemed boring to me. Or "uninspired" is maybe a better way to put it. And actually I find, say, Daydream Nation far more tuneful and poppy, in a good way, than their last few records. I don't really think Daydream Nation is especially raw or sloppy by any means. It's packed with great tunes. It's strange to see it referred to as if it's this messy early work in comparison to the polished new stuff, when to me it seems so fully realized in itself, so perfect in its every note and every shard of feedback. It's really an album I never get tired of.

[leroysghost]

The Fall's Hex Enduction Hour is a damn near perfect album, but efforts to find anything by them that's anywhere close to as good have been mostly fruitless.

not even Slates or Perverted by Language? have you heard any of the Peel sessions (especially the 78-83 ones)?

if they haven't already, people who don't like Bob Marley should check out the early Jamaica Wailers stuff (including the original mix of Catch a Fire). infinitely better in my opinion.

[negative potential]

His technique certainly comes right out of Albert

Nice way of skirting the question of whether his music actually sounds like Albert King's.

SY's last few albums (after the fantastic Murray Street) have seemed boring to me. Or "uninspired" is maybe a better way to put it.

Yeah, "uninspired" strikes me as the perfect word for describing Sonic Youth, and not just their recent albums, but the entirety of their recorded output.

Certainly there are people like Steve whose tastes are simply idiosyncratic and who genuinely like such music, but I suspect a lot of the respect shown to Sonic Youth is just empty ritual genuflection expressed for a band that enjoys the advantage of having its work judged by its reputation rather than having its reputation being determined by its work.

[MRS]

His technique certainly comes right out of Albert

Nice way of skirting the question of whether his music actually sounds like Albert King's.

His guitar playing in many instances very much sounds like Albert King's. It would be more enjoyable and informative if you would actually discuss this instead of driving by, which is frustrating.

[tarfumes]

Re: schicksalsgemeinschaft and Daniel Jones on The Doors. I think to enjoy the Doors they have to be thought of as a bubblegum psychedelic band, like the Strawberry Alarm Clock or something along those lines. If you listen to them within the interpretative matrix of "rock poetry" or "rock legends" or whatever then they also suck.

Dave Marsh made a similar point in the New Rolling Stone Record Guide (I'm paraphrasing), that the Doors can best be (or only) appreciated as a singles band along the lines of Tommy James & The Shondells, only not quite at that level, not so much for Morrison's buffoonery as for the rest of the band's lackadaisical approach.

[Steve Reynolds]

I don't think my tastes are that unusual

I like great music

I can't think that Sonic Youth's total output is uninspired - I do think that I need to give daydream Nation some more time as when I bought the original CD in the early 90's I didn't have the patience for their *sound* or whatever

I just re-bought the deluxe edition about a month ago and have only given it a couple of listens (the original album CD) - so maybe I am missing something that seemingly prompts most fans of this sort of music to rate this recording in the upper echelons of upper echelons


I guess I am most looking forward to hearing Murray Street, A Thousand Leaves and Sonic Nurse

[Gerardo A]

I suspect a lot of the respect shown to Sonic Youth is just empty ritual genuflection expressed for a band that enjoys the advantage of having its work judged by its reputation rather than having its reputation being determined by its work.

[jon abbey]

if people are actually going to start taking Alex's statements seriously enough to repeat them, then I'm going to have to chime in.

1) I agree that Sonic Youth makes and has always made lousy records (with the exception of The Diamond Sea and Hits of Sunshine, two long tracks that I love).

2) however, they have also, from all reports and from my experience, been a very strong live band. this is where a good deal of their reputation comes from.

3) they've also had an almost incalculable and massive influence on getting experimental/noise/improv/whatever music exposed to a wider audience, and probably get some extra slack from many people because of this.

4) lastly, SY is often many people's initial exposure to any kind of 'noise' in music. people's opinions about SY tend to say much more about themselves than they do about the comparative worth of the records, more than maybe any other band/artist I know. the records are pretty much all OK, not terrible, not great, and it ends up being mostly about when in someone's listening life people hear them (this isn't meant to disparage the taste of someone like sevenarts, whose listening skills I respect very much, just a general statement of something I've observed over the years).

[surfer]

The Cure

I've been on a bit of a Cure binge recently after not listening to them for ages. D'you not even like Pornography?

With you on Patti Smith, though. Have you heard the recent covers album? Ugh...

re: Cure

I really dont like Robert Smith's voice, and I think the arrangements are really banal and muddy, plodding. Not to mention the lyrics are stupid much of the time. I was just listening to UCSC radio the other day and they were playing a live set of early Cure: Killing an Arab, Boys Dont Cry, and a bunch of others, and I didnt like any of it. Their later stuff like Pictures of You and all that crap is really really unlistenable to me, I heard a lot of it in HS, so there's that too. Obviously imo, and I dont mean to demean them if you like them
Gaendaal.

re: Patti Smith, I dont think I've heard anything but Horses, but I've given that at least 9-10 listens, I even bought the album at one point thinking it had to one day "click", never did.

[surfer]

I haven't given Rather Ripped much of a chance, admittedly, but yeah SY's last few albums (after the fantastic Murray Street) have seemed boring to me. Or "uninspired" is maybe a better way to put it. And actually I find, say, Daydream Nation far more tuneful and poppy, in a good way, than their last few records. I don't really think Daydream Nation is especially raw or sloppy by any means. It's packed with great tunes. It's strange to see it referred to as if it's this messy early work in comparison to the polished new stuff, when to me it seems so fully realized in itself, so perfect in its every note and every shard of feedback. It's really an album I never get tired of.

I'm not going to try to defend SY, most of their output (I havent kept up with them recently) is spotty, but will agree with Ed here and say that Daydream Nation makes a pretty nice capstone to the Reagan 80s.

[jon abbey]

will agree with Ed here and say that Daydream Nation makes a pretty nice capstone to the Reagan 80s.

it came out at the exact same time as It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back (I remember spending the summer listening to both), and IMO that's a way better fit for a Reagan coda (which it really wasn't anyway, as Bush I took office for the next four years).

[surfer]

will agree with Ed here and say that Daydream Nation makes a pretty nice capstone to the Reagan 80s.

it came out at the exact same time as It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back (I remember spending the summer listening to both), and IMO that's a way better fit for a Reagan coda (which it really wasn't anyway, as Bush I took office for the next four years).

Yeah, I agree with that choice, but they make a nice pair imo because really they are commenting on different aspects of Reagan's America.

[negative potential]

His guitar playing in many instances very much sounds like Albert King's. It would be more enjoyable and informative if you would actually discuss this instead of driving by, which is frustrating.

You're basically implying that Hendrix is an Albert King clone, which is unacceptable. That's like saying that Gang of Four are essentially a dub reggae or funk band, just because they were influenced by dub reggae or funk.

[negative potential]

and it ends up being mostly about when in someone's listening life pomeeople hear them

This is true, but it's also the reason while every mediocre band of the 1960s acquires "classic" status because some boomers had their first kiss or smoked their first joint while hearing their music. That really doesn't work as an argument in favor of the music.

[jon abbey]

good, because I wasn't arguing in favor of the music.

[A Consumer]

re: SY
Most seem to find "Daydream Nation" as their pinnacle but "EVOL" does it for me every time (with "GOO" a close second IMHO).
"Shadow of a Doubt" just has the most amazing mood. There has been A LOT of meh for the past ten years fo sho.

[J.F.]

Oh - there's still completely subjective opinions on Sonic Youth exchanged here.

Funny I find "Daydream Nation" to be the one I like the least. There's obviously only one really inspried song on that one. All others are dull.
Each and every other album (even the last two) sure has several moments of sparkling inspiration and songs with lovely melodies.
I have yet to hear a singer in a band (that widely exposed) who is - as vocalist, and in a positive way - as fucked up as Kim Gordon. She sings out of tune a lot of the time and I love the resulting kind of expression, at least in the SY context! - one strong musical SY-aspect for me from 1981 to, uh, let's think about this... 2010 (too bad she sometimes tends to loose the contenance in live concerts - one reason I actually prefer the albums over their live-concerts).

Sometimes the band is great in terms of building energetic or delicate textures. What I occasionally hear there is a clear sense and idea about what kind of sounds to combine to effectively achieve some particular expression. I dislike certain things about the two guitar guys' stage attitude, but still they sure have some distinctive sounds in their palette.

I still have to hear a drummer, in that kind of "dull group", who can offer that sensitive jazzy touch like Steve Shelley.

After all, that's dull and uninspired to others (which is completely fine with me), a band living off more on their reputation than on the actual music. Okaaayyy.

[bedouin]

and it ends up being mostly about when in someone's listening life pomeeople hear them

This is true, but it's also the reason while every mediocre band of the 1960s acquires "classic" status because some boomers had their first kiss or smoked their first joint while hearing their music. That really doesn't work as an argument in favor of the music.

haven't really paid much attention to the discussion here, but I think this maybe true only for people who don't really follow music closely.

for a lot of people rock music only matters up to Woodstock (69), a few years back and dying slowly by the end of the 70s. Primarily because of lack of social dimension (Neil Young was 'rocking in the free world' by the end of Reagan's 80s! - what free world?). But also because since the enormous commercial success of the Beatles the music industry really took over on what music should be, so most of what is considered classic since then is really manufactured (despite the talent that may be involved, occasionally).

[negative potential]

Yeah, I agree with that choice, but they make a nice pair imo because really they are commenting on different aspects of Reagan's America.

I always thought Daydream Nation was a concept album based upon William Gibson's Sprawl Trilogy. I can't prove this, but I remember them stating this in an interview in _Guitar Player_ magazine around the time the album came out.

Not that this invalidates what you say. If anything, Gibson's novels themselves are comments on different aspects of Reagan's America.