State of Improvisation 2010

[howsthatsound]

hahaha, i'm imagining them all drunk and rambling now.

thanks for the update jon. this was a very interesting addition to this thread.

[Damon_Smith]

Awesome, Jon. That was a great read. In terms of what is next for improvised music, I still feel no one ever really met the challenge Parker/Guy/Lytton put forth.
I think there are still uncharted areas in that kind of virtuoso, kalidascopic improv. Along with them Cecil Taylor's Feel Trio and Bill Dixon's Vade Mecum band were formative recordings for me, Holz Für Europa and King Übü's Binarality could be included as well.
For a while Mat's was working in that area and seemed to be really getting somewhere before veering off into more traditional free jazz and indie rock, my trio with Wolfgang Fuchs and Jerome Bryerton gave it a go but there are still things to be done - whether it is to everyone's taste or not is another story.
Parker/Guy/Lytton are still pushing it with their new albums. I was listening to the collaborations with Crispell on Leo and Guy's 1993 trio wtih Crispell and Hemmingway (an awesome, overlooked album for this sort of playing) and I still find it be very exciting music.
I think in this time period a much wider dynamic range and more finely developed textures are possible. In the end who knows what is next?

[schiksalgemeinschaft]

another round of circular breathing?

[Damon_Smith]

another round of circular breathing?

No, and I don't think that is an important aspect of the trio's interaction, either. Fuchs and Mats rarely - if ever used it. I just think there is more to do as far as rapid textural exchange. It would, of course, take a few interested and capable musicians to work it out.

[bedouin]

Improvisation: The Entanglement of Awareness and Physicality
Ballarat Kids v Boulez

A very interesting attempt to rationalise improvisation (v. composition) by Jim Denley.
http://www.myspace.com/splitrec/blog/536760577

[jkudler]

haven't fully read danmmr's comments yet (i need to go eat first), but this seems relevant:
http://www.radiolab.org/2007/sep/24/

my girlfriend just alerted me to this (haven't listened yet to that either, heh. . .), which apparently deals with how the brain processes sound and particularly novel sounds and how music a la the rite of spring that sounds really "difficult" at first can come to be pretty thoroughly integrated as pleasant music and how that "learning curve" works. someone tell me if it's worth my hour (i don't like listening closely to radio all that much, though i guess i could/should DL for some upcoming travel).

-j.

[snailed]

radiolab is fun but don't go in expecting too much substance, esp. w/r/t that episode. i don't remember there being much hard science in that segment. it's good ear candy though with some fun facts sprinkled in.

[notoriousd]

I think there are still uncharted areas in that kind of virtuoso, kalidascopic improv.

Dude have you heard the recent album "Asynchronous" by Van Hove/Dunmall/Rogers/Lytton? I think this is what you're talking about! Also the Parker/Houle/Delbecq trio is amazing for this kind of super genius improv. Both these groups are notable because they have such a strong understanding of harmony and composition in general as well as all the euro-wildness and "new silence" styles which we are now accustomed to.

[schiksalgemeinschaft]

Maybe it's chauvinism, but it think it's amazing how energetic & fresh Fred Van Hove still sounds. Sadly, he's probably in his last decade now. I'm lucky to be able to catch him live at least once a year somewhere here in Belgium.

[notoriousd]

Maybe it's chauvinism, but it think it's amazing how energetic & fresh Fred Van Hove still sounds. Sadly, he's probably in his last decade now. I'm lucky to be able to catch him live at least once a year somewhere here in Belgium.

tell me about it...If I didn't know he was improvising I would assume he was playing some carefully composed 20th century music! His lack of repetition and the thematic development in his solo stuff is astonishing, and his harmony skills are unparalleled (except maybe by Bergman). His "Journey" album on psi is crazy he plays for almost an hour without stopping, the creative juices flowing the whole way through. It's a shame there don't seem to be enough recent records of him grrr. I would love to see him live I don't suppose there's a place that lists any upcoming shows of his?

[notoriousd]

Improvisation: The Entanglement of Awareness and Physicality
Ballarat Kids v Boulez

A very interesting attempt to rationalise improvisation (v. composition) by Jim Denley.
http://www.myspace.com/splitrec/blog/536760577

thanks for this great article, I've always wanted to read something by Denley, a true "instant" composer.

[schiksalgemeinschaft]

Maybe it's chauvinism, but it think it's amazing how energetic & fresh Fred Van Hove still sounds. Sadly, he's probably in his last decade now. I'm lucky to be able to catch him live at least once a year somewhere here in Belgium.

tell me about it...If I didn't know he was improvising I would assume he was playing some carefully composed 20th century music! His lack of repetition and the thematic development in his solo stuff is astonishing, and his harmony skills are unparalleled (except maybe by Bergman). His "Journey" album on psi is crazy he plays for almost an hour without stopping, the creative juices flowing the whole way through. It's a shame there don't seem to be enough recent records of him grrr. I would love to see him live I don't suppose there's a place that lists any upcoming shows of his?

Besides that Journey I haven't bought any of his more latests stuff, so I can't say much about that, I was talking more about him live. Anyhow, I highly enjoyed his albums of late nineties (e.g. Flux) and early 2000. The times I've seen him live he improvised, generally two continuous sets of about 45 mintues or one long hour.

As far as I'm aware, I don't think he plays live much anymore, aside from playing every year at the latest incarnation of the Free Music Festival in Antwerp, Follow The Sound.

[leroysghost]

not sure where to best post this...

reading through The BSC's Manual now i am really liking the genre classification of "Self-Idiomatic" that Mike Bullock used in his 2010 doctoral thesis. he only uses it to refer to improvisation, and it might end up to be too lofty a term to refer to taomud as a whole, but for the moment i am quite taken with it.

let the nomenclature shitstorm recommence.

[Charon]

not sure where to best post this...

reading through The BSC's Manual now i am really liking the genre classification of "Self-Idiomatic" that Mike Bullock used in his 2010 doctoral thesis. he only uses it to refer to improvisation, and it might end up to be too lofty a term to refer to taomud as a whole, but for the moment i am quite taken with it.

let the nomenclature shitstorm recommence.

I haven't read the Manual book, but I have read Mike's thesis (is the whole thesis reproduced in the book?). Personally I don't subscribe to the "Self-idiomatic" idea since it doesn't describe the aspects of improvisation that I think are the most interesting, but it does seem to fit the outlook of a fair few of the members here, going on previous discussions.

[leroysghost]

it's not reproduced but it's referenced/quoted in a number of places.

a Self-Idiomatic Construction strikes me as being a fairly easily understood explanation for a new music that can't fit nicely into the heretofore accepted genre classifications, but has already become codified to some extent, and is tempered by each individual's personal ideas and preferences.

it's become way too awkward for me to have to explain eai to people as being neither electronic, acoustic, or improvised
an alternative must be found

[leroysghost]

plus there is the latin sic, pronounced "seek", meaning "in such a manner". both of those connotations are pluses in my book.

[bullock]

it's not reproduced but it's referenced/quoted in a number of places.

a Self-Idiomatic Construction strikes me as being a fairly easily understood explanation for a new music that can't fit nicely into the heretofore accepted genre classifications, but has already become codified to some extent, and is tempered by each individual's personal ideas and preferences.

it's become way too awkward for me to have to explain eai to people as being neither electronic, acoustic, or improvised
an alternative must be found

Glad you like it. My whole dissertation is available free online - I've got a link on my website to where it's hosted on the RPI library servers:
http://mikebullock.com/category/writings/

I don't think I'd attach the term "construction" to it because to me that implies specific kinds of modus operandi. Also, in the dissertation I mention something Christian Wolff told me, that "Idiomatic" by it's greek root already implies something that's unique to onesself (idiosyncracies etc). So for me, it's two layers: the "Idiomatic" part is about the general usage of that term in music to say something slightly different than genre, but overlapping; and the "Self" part is bringing it back to the individual musician, group, or event.