Recommendations of meditative and acoustic minimal, improv

[free math]

yeah, sussman's "electric guitar" (probably not his "acoustic guitar" though).

minimal... maybe "training thoughts" (mattin/sugimoto/totsuka) and/or whitenoise (mattin/malfatti). sugimoto/malfatti's futatsu for sure.

the eubanks/foster/lafkas trio here is very. very acoustic and, i guess, meditative. http://rasbliutto.net/artists/andrewlafkas.html

[jon abbey]

sugimoto/malfatti's futatsu for sure.

actually, while this one is obviously quite minimal in terms of sound events, I've found it impossible to use as background music (talking about disc 1 only), which is very rare for me. the tension set up between the sound events and the intervening silences is so perfectly balanced that I always find myself on the edge of my seat waiting for the next shoe to drop/sound event. so I'd say this would be the exact opposite of meditative, for me anyway. nice record, though!

[nirav]

If I have an idea of what you're talking about, the Malfatti/Filip/Roberts/Mattin - Building Excess disc is a personal favorite in this style. Also, Yoshimitsu Ichiraku/Kazushige Kinoshita/Taku Unami - Cymbal Violin Lapsteel.

[faster]

Man, I hate the idea of music being "meditative," but I think I know what you mean, and Hello, by Takahiro Kawaguchi and Shinjiro Yamaguchi, is very good.

[Matt Wuethrich]

Man, I hate the idea of music being "meditative,"

What's wrong with this term as a description? Or, is it more the way the term has been used through the years than what it actually means? To me the term meditiative would indicate music/sound that induces a heightened sense of concentration. Isn't that what a lot of the music we discuss is all about, or at least the effect of it?

[simon reynell]

Man, I hate the idea of music being "meditative,"

What's wrong with this term as a description? Or, is it more the way the term has been used through the years than what it actually means? To me the term meditiative would indicate music/sound that induces a heightened sense of concentration. Isn't that what a lot of the music we discuss is all about, or at least the effect of it?

while a lot of the music I like best is minimal and - at least in part - acoustic, I too baulk at the word 'meditative'. For others it may not, but for me it carries connotations of anodyne new age blandness. The music I like best retains an edge so that even if in fact a particular piece doesn't ever become abrasive or register above pp, it has something about it to suggest that it always might, and keeps you on your toes a bit rather than being totally relaxing in a soporific / predictable way.

[faster]

I also think it's a bit of a disservice to meditation, which is not, as I understand it, just "relaxing." But the word "meditative" always seems to be used to connote that.

[Jesse]

Well, I've been at the meditation thing [what suzuki roshi called "one insult after another"] for 30 years-training the mind under the tutelage of Tibetan, Japanese, Corean and American teachers. I have no clue what meditative connotes generally.
I do get Simon's point that as a marketing place-holder, it connotes cheesy, dumbed-down, consonant/pretty *music*, generally heard in shiatsu clinics and the like.
I think this thread illustrates that nearly every poster has a different concept of meditation, and thus what music owns *meditative* qualities.
Meditation is not relaxtion, but actually a state of focused awareness/alertness.
Any music that is in efect soporific [ * which I enjoy occasionally for its soporific effects, as I once enjoyed ingesting chemicals that induced soporific states], isn't, imo, *meditative*.


* E.g., Greg Davis, Saito Koshi, Celer, Eleh, et al

[negative potential]

Any music that is in efect soporific [ ...], isn't, imo, *meditative*.

That's probably why Lester Bangs had the Zen monk recommend putting on the first Clash album (English track listing) at top volume with the treble cranked and no bass.

[orangettecoleman]

Wouldn't mind more recommendations for composed works in this vein as well. Feldman is generally all I find when searching for this type of sound, and he gets labeled as "minimalist" which usually means "repetitive, tonal, and accessible" when applied to any other composer, so trying to find composers who inhabit a similar sound world as Feldman seems to be a losing battle if one tries to use the terminology applied to him as a guidepost...

[surfer]

Wouldn't mind more recommendations for composed works in this vein as well. Feldman is generally all I find when searching for this type of sound, and he gets labeled as "minimalist" which usually means "repetitive, tonal, and accessible" when applied to any other composer, so trying to find composers who inhabit a similar sound world as Feldman seems to be a losing battle if one tries to use the terminology applied to him as a guidepost...

Try Maderna, esp the Oboe Concertos.

[surfer]

Of course you cant go wrong going back to Webern as well.

[simon reynell]

Few composers tend to stick in one mode for all their work, so the 'meditative, acoustic, minimal' tags would only apply to some works by the following - and most of them might well dispute even that - but anyway:

[Nono and Eliane Radigue have already been mentioned]

Toshio Hosokawa
Walter Zimmermann
Alvin Lucier
Phil Niblock
Jakob Ullmann
James Saunders
Giacinto Scelsi
Kunsu Shim
Carola Bauckholt
Ernstalbrecht Stiebler
Bryn Harrison
James Tenney
Horatiu Radulescu
Carol Robinson
Michael Vetter
plus several Wandelweiser composers (Jurg Frey, Antoine Beuger, Manfred Werder, Eva-Maria Houben, Burkhard Schlothauer amongst others)

[these aren't necessarily recommendations; I really like some of these, but others not very much. But you can find your way round them and decide for yourself]

[bedouin]

Toru Takemitsu - In an Autumn Garden (Deutsche Grammophon). listen to this and you'll start to hear magic.

[orangettecoleman]

Few composers tend to stick in one mode for all their work, so the 'meditative, acoustic, minimal' tags would only apply to some works by the following - and most of them might well dispute even that - but anyway:

[Nono and Eliane Radigue have already been mentioned]

Toshio Hosokawa
Walter Zimmermann
Alvin Lucier
Phil Niblock
Jakob Ullmann
James Saunders
Giacinto Scelsi
Kunsu Shim
Carola Bauckholt
Ernstalbrecht Stiebler
Bryn Harrison
James Tenney
Horatiu Radulescu
Carol Robinson
Michael Vetter
plus several Wandelweiser composers (Jurg Frey, Antoine Beuger, Manfred Werder, Eva-Maria Houben, Burkhard Schlothauer amongst others)

[these aren't necessarily recommendations; I really like some of these, but others not very much. But you can find your way round them and decide for yourself]

I'm familiar with some of these (Scelsi, Niblock, Lucier, Tenney, Hosokawa) as well as with Webern, but am unfamiliar with the others. I'll be delving back into some of my 20th century collection that has been insufficiently listened to as well as investigating quite a few of these names. I need to go ahead and order some works by Michael Pisaro as well, I keep hearing about his stuff, as well as Bruno Maderna. Thanks for the recommendations.

[jpeatt]

Toru Takemitsu - In an Autumn Garden (Deutsche Grammophon). listen to this and you'll start to hear magic.

Such a good record.

It's pretty hard to go wrong with Such 'The Issue at Hand' in a similar vein and, of course Gagaku in general.

[RFKorp]

I'm familiar with some of these (Scelsi, Niblock, Lucier, Tenney, Hosokawa) as well as with Webern, but am unfamiliar with the others [...] need to go ahead and order some works by Michael Pisaro as well, I keep hearing about his stuff,

well, I'll stand behind Simon's suggestions of Ullmann, Saunders, Radulescu, and Robinson in addition to those you know. Pretty good calls. But yeah, some names I'm gonna have to look up myself too!

The Wandelweiser crew in general is also very on point, and it would be a disservice to only delve into Pisaro among them. I imagine we've had a thread on suggestions among that catalog but if not, it might be a rather interesting discussion to have aside from this thread.

[jon abbey]

there are a couple of threads here:

http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=110

http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49

[ReverendLove]

I wonder why nobody mentioned Erik Satie.
OK it is obvious and maybe walking on beaten track. But there is always something to find.
For example the accordeon interpretations of Anzelotti and the piano interpretations of Ulrich Gumpert.
The last one are so slow that you thirst for the next tone and that the whole piece almost goes to pieces.

I also wnt to recommend the banjo works of Philip Metzger.

[Jesse]

Pretty sure you mean Paul Metzger, a neighbor of mine, and a very fine improvising, raga-esque banjo player.