Highly orchestrated jazz records.

[faster]

yes there is a thread for Zappa & also he got mentioned here hence the comments about his stuff & whether it is 'jazz' or not. Seems fair to me....

Yeah, my link was intended as a gentle reminder that Zappa talk after that would probably be best served by being in the Zappa thread. Makes more sense than everyone piping up with their Zappa opinions in this thread. Seems pretty obvious to me....

Oliver Nelson - there are rumours (still) of a release of his full sessions for 'blues & abstract....' which are supposed to be stunning.

Wow, great

[gohleekwang]

few days ago was the first time i listen to Zappa in the pass 3 years (and make a post here).

about 10 years ago a local cd store have a big sale on ryko, up to 70% discount, i got a few Zappa back then.

i have some good memories with them (most of cds are not with me now):
Live at Fillmore
...in it for the money
Freak Out
(the one with 18 mins of Yo Mama on last track)
(the live album with Zappa with a SG guitar on cover)
Yellow Shark (my personal fav)

a quote from a friend "... i've listen to too much Zappa and Beefheart back then, and cannot make myself to listen to any Beefheart anymore, but Zappa is still OK because he have some many albums..."

my first Zappa was Jazz from Hell...

opps, off topic here.

[JrF]

fair point I guess.

'more blues & the abstract truth' is quite good too - as is 'afro-american skethes'

'sound pieces' is really interesting but I think the cd is deleted now. The opening 'sound piece for jazz orchestra' was quite ahead of it's time.


oh & did I already mentioned Raymond Scott in this thread ? his orchestrations were great & influential to say the least.

[fearandpanic]

Nelson's Afro-American Sketches, arranged for a very large group, is more ambitious, but a little less successful, I think.

If the emphasis of the topic is placed on arranging rather than orchestrating, Julius Hemphill's last few records for sax sextets (sometimes including himself, sometimes not, as he became ill) are really worthwhile. They're pretty much extensions of his work with the World Saxophone Quartet, which he'd recently left, but the extra two sax parts pose all sorts of problems for arranging. A tall order for any arranger, and Hemphill has a great sense for solving these kinds of problems. (So had Brahms in his two string sextets, which appeal to me for some of the same reasons--mostly how they make that kind of full, tightly packed sound move) Some of the best tunes on the Hemphill like the "The Hard Blues" and "Fat Man" (on Fat Man and the Hard Blues from 1991) have a Mingus-esque feel for blues riffs and a real bite in the arrangements.

[jon abbey]

Nelson's Afro-American Sketches, arranged for a very large group, is more ambitious, but a little less successful, I think.

If the emphasis of the topic is placed on arranging rather than orchestrating, Julius Hemphill's last few records for sax sextets (sometimes including himself, sometimes not, as he became ill) are really worthwhile. They're pretty much extensions of his work with the World Saxophone Quartet, which he'd recently left, but the extra two sax parts pose all sorts of problems for arranging. A tall order for any arranger, and Hemphill has a great sense for solving these kinds of problems. (So had Brahms in his two string sextets, which appeal to me for some of the same reasons--mostly how they make that kind of full, tightly packed sound move) Some of the best tunes on the Hemphill like the "The Hard Blues" and "Fat Man" (on Fat Man and the Hard Blues from 1991) have a Mingus-esque feel for blues riffs and a real bite in the arrangements.

the original version of "The Hard Blues", from Coon Bid'Ness (reissued under a few different names), is far superior to this one IMO, and the best thing Hemphill ever did.

I saw that Fat Man group live (maybe Hemphill's last performance?), but even in my biggest jazz fan days, I never liked all-sax groups.

Hemphill is a slightly overlooked major figure, though: any fans of Tim Berne would do well to explore the Hemphill catalog, as that's where Berne got many of his ideas from, as he'd be the first to tell you, I'm sure.

[fearandpanic]

the original version of "The Hard Blues", from Coon Bid'Ness (reissued under a few different names), is far superior to this one IMO, and the best thing Hemphill ever did..

Yeah, that's a top one, much slower and stretched out to twenty minutes. In returning to it after twenty years he fleshed out the harmony, doubled the pace, and kept the soloists in the strict confines of the main riff. He cleverly kept one of the secondary phrases to dramatically cut off the sax sextet version with an out-of-nowhere flourish.

[Tokyo Butt Patrol]

weird, i was listening to coon bid'ness just the other day (and dogon a.d. earlier today)

[fearandpanic]

I have mixed feelings about some of Carla Bley's middle and later-period stuff, but Social Studies (1980) is mostly a mix of old dance styles (tangos and waltzes), Kurt Weill-Hanns Eisler musical sarcasm and irony and more straightforward arrangements along the lines of Ellington's soloist vehicles. The thirteen-minute tango this one opens with is exactly the kind of mood I can only take in small doses, but "Copyright Royalties" is a great piece of neo-Ellingtonia with a star turn for the clarinetist Tony Dagradi. The sparse arrangement makes a lot of the tuba part, just holding things together at the bottom, fleshed out here and there with perfectly arranged horn chords. The waltz, "Valse Sinistre" is worth hearing too, especially if you're interested in the finer points of thickly scored arrangements. Michael Mantler and Steve Swallow are on board as soloists.

[Dan Warburton]

The version of "Floater" on that is great, if you like unsubtle trombone solos (Gary Valente) - but the dry boxy sound (OK so you don't need a Berrocal reverb all the time, but a little resonance doesn't go amiss) annoys after a while. Dagradi's sound fits quite nicely with it, though. My fave saxman from that Bley band was Steve Slagle.

[Gerardo A]

Yeah, Slagle's alto is killer in the "Live at Montreal" DVD, plus you get to see Carla stand up from her organ and conduct the band a la Butch Morris, and you also get to see a young Joe Lovano stretching out on tenor.

[orangettecoleman]

Dave Holland's record from 2005 was really tremendous and hasn't been mentioned yet. I listened to that one a lot. Also the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis records from the 70s are a lot of fun and have interesting arrangements.