I hate Facebook

[negative potential]

The appeal to Twitter seems to be that a lot of actual writers and journalists (and even celebrities) use it regularly, so it's appealing to people who want to interact with them, in however limited a fashion.

So if you want to follow, say, William Gibson regularly (he tweets a lot), Twitter is the medium to do that.

And Twitter seems to have developed its own kind of niche subculture of political pundits and their readers and critics interacting. The Chapo Trap House podcast basically emerged out of this phenomenon.

Still, I find Twitter's format/interface a headache to deal with, so I don't bother.

Facebook's heyday as an actual platform is already gone, apparently young people have been leaving it in droves - or never bothering with it - in recent years. But they're a canny corporation, so they just buy up potentially competing platforms, like WhatsApp and Instagram, thus smartly avoiding the fate of previous platforms like Friendster or MySpace.

So while Facebook the platform might become increasingly marginal, Facebook the corporation will be around for a while.

[Mo Noyz]

I don’t really agree with that assessment. Facebook hasn’t really become marginalized because many businesses now use it as their website rather than creating their own .com

Now, you are correct concerning the youth flight, but because of the proliferation of specialty groups (be they international or local) and businesses increasingly finding a home there, I think it’s just as viable and vibrant as it’s ever been. Does the youth flight doom it into irrelevency in the future? That’s a good question. But it’s not there yet.

[jon abbey]

like many things these days, your experience on Facebook is almost entirely what you make it and people who talk about it in universals sound pretty idiotic.

also, Twitter is way way worse but somehow seems to draw a lot less hatred, I'd recommend people get better 'friends' and/or improve their own preferences there. or stay away, that's fine too, but shut up about it, no one cares.

We get it, Jon, you like Facebook. That's fine. Why get so defensive? I saw the benefit of FB in the short time I was on it years ago. But to turn a blind eye to important downsides (both personal and universal) of social media doesn't strike me as a good way to go either.

In any case, your response here is just plain rude. Enjoy your internet socializing, dude.

are you kidding? Steve and Dan haven't even ever been on there, so I would say their posts here are much more 'rude', if anything.

and it's not really that I like it, it's amusingly exactly the opposite of what you are saying, that people here and elsewhere are turning a blind eye to important upsides (both personal and universal) of social media. every single stupid-ass app that one uses on FB asks permission before it can access any of your data, it's quite easy to say no unless you have a desperate need to know which boy band singer your cat looks like.

[Mo Noyz]

Yeah, I deny all that garbage. I assume most do these days, since I never see any of those goofy things in my feed.

Then again, my incredibly small circle of friends are pretty savvy when it comes to that kind of thing.

[negative potential]

yeah that's true a lot of musicians too no longer have personal websites, just a Facebook page, so if you want to know tour dates, etc., you have to look there.

I find that lock-in irritating, but as long as we're formulating utopian demands, "socialize Facebook and make it into a public utility" strikes me as more desirable than "boycott Facebook and hope it goes away."

[Mo Noyz]

It really has become far more utilitarian in nature than what it started out as. IMO, this site is far more social media, by definition, than Facebook is.

[Dan Warburton]

Steve and Dan haven't even ever been on there, so I would say their posts here are much more 'rude', if anything

Thanks for the single quotation marks there, Jon - fwiw I didn't find your post above in any way rude - but I don't think my not being on FB should preclude me having an opinion. We're not discussing something esoteric where specialised knowledge counts, but something that's used for several hours a day by almost everyone I know and work with. I am, honestly, trying to think of what you mean by "important upsides (both personal and universal" - would you care to elaborate? Not trolling in any way, seriously: social media is something I will soon probably have to engage with, both professionally and personally. I managed to steer clear of mobile phones until 2015 - and since I've had one, I've only actually used it as a telephone twice - but it looks like I'll have to have at least a LinkedIn page within the next couple of months. Sigh. I think of Malcolm Goldstein.. is he still writing his wonderful handwritten letters in the Vermont house he built with his own hands? "I just want my life to be continually open, so that in death I'll just disappear. Leave no footsteps behind, no memorial. Just like a cloud, passing." http://www.paristransatlantic.com/magaz ... stein.html

[Wombatz]

it looks like I'll have to have at least a LinkedIn page within the next couple of months

linkedin is super spammy. have fun explaining to your email acquaintances that you did not try recruiting them to the site.

for me the attraction of fb is simple: i'm from the cultural backwoods, i hardly know any people in real life who share any of my interests in music or comics etc. so it's nice that folks not just with the same interests, but whose work i'm a fan of, hang in an easily accessible place and one can have some small talk and receive some recommendations and post some thoughts into a mildly sympathetic vacuum. i see no possible downsides to that.

if you want to follow, say, William Gibson regularly (he tweets a lot), Twitter is the medium to do that

i unfollowed him after a week, he's such a square. it's a dangerous outlet, few people are really good at chuckling at their own aphorisms in public.

[Dan Warburton]

linkedin is super spammy. have fun explaining to your email acquaintances that you did not try recruiting them to the site

Ugh, thanks for the info. Maybe I'll pass after all. Meanwhile, if you're planning a visit to Trumpton http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43601557

[Dan Warburton]

[bryan]

like many things these days, your experience on Facebook is almost entirely what you make it and people who talk about it in universals sound pretty idiotic.

also, Twitter is way way worse but somehow seems to draw a lot less hatred, I'd recommend people get better 'friends' and/or improve their own preferences there. or stay away, that's fine too, but shut up about it, no one cares.

We get it, Jon, you like Facebook. That's fine. Why get so defensive? I saw the benefit of FB in the short time I was on it years ago. But to turn a blind eye to important downsides (both personal and universal) of social media doesn't strike me as a good way to go either.

In any case, your response here is just plain rude. Enjoy your internet socializing, dude.

are you kidding? Steve and Dan haven't even ever been on there, so I would say their posts here are much more 'rude', if anything.

and it's not really that I like it, it's amusingly exactly the opposite of what you are saying, that people here and elsewhere are turning a blind eye to important upsides (both personal and universal) of social media. every single stupid-ass app that one uses on FB asks permission before it can access any of your data, it's quite easy to say no unless you have a desperate need to know which boy band singer your cat looks like.

Ok, fair enough. And also to be fair, you could even say I was turning a blind eye to the rudeness coming from the anti-FB camp here

FB is just not for me but I don't want to denigrate it too much. It's just that I was salty that it made IHM obsolete.

[negative potential]

It's just that I was salty that it made IHM obsolete.

To be fair, I think it's too monocausal to blame Facebook for that. The sports discussion board here is quite lively, and the TV thread is active, so I don't think it's Facebook.

I just think the musical "scene" that IHM was focused upon doesn't really exist as a coherent entity anymore. The aggregate of musicians and scenes that were referred to as "eai" around the turn of the millennium has kind of split off into all kinds of directions: some people have gone on to focus on contemporary composed music, others seem to have returned to the fold of the larger free improvisation community, the ones who were primarily electronica artists mainly do that now, etc. People who are primarily into Wandelweiser stuff might not care about the kind of ensembles John Butcher plays in regularly. Folks who still buy Fennesz albums might have never been the types to listen to Axel Dörner's jazz output, etc. IHM very much feels like a product of a certain "moment" that has passed. But I agree it's lamentable, since I thought the posters here were the most musically informed and omnivorous.

The old Jazzcorner forum died before Facebook became a dominant medium, and I think that was also primarily musical inertia. All the Crouch/Marsalis jazz wars stuff had been done to death in the 90s and the turn of the millennium. The larger world has moved on from that, Jazz is largely a repertory music today, and there aren't any real "controversies" to hash out anymore.

[Steve Minkin]

The old Jazzcorner forum died before Facebook became a dominant medium, and I think that was also primarily musical inertia. All the Crouch/Marsalis jazz wars stuff had been done to death in the 90s and the turn of the millennium. The larger world has moved on from that, Jazz is largely a repertory music today, and there aren't any real "controversies" to hash out anymore.

Lois shut down the discussion board on Jazzcorner (which still survives as a portal). It didn't die a natural death, it was terminated. The passionate discussions died some years before that.

[jon abbey]

I just think the musical "scene" that IHM was focused upon doesn't really exist as a coherent entity anymore. The aggregate of musicians and scenes that were referred to as "eai" around the turn of the millennium has kind of split off into all kinds of directions: some people have gone on to focus on contemporary composed music, others seem to have returned to the fold of the larger free improvisation community, the ones who were primarily electronica artists mainly do that now, etc. People who are primarily into Wandelweiser stuff might not care about the kind of ensembles John Butcher plays in regularly. Folks who still buy Fennesz albums might have never been the types to listen to Axel Dörner's jazz output, etc. IHM very much feels like a product of a certain "moment" that has passed. But I agree it's lamentable, since I thought the posters here were the most musically informed and omnivorous.

I'm not sure any of this has almost anything to do with it, I htink it's mostly just that everyone is on the internet now and knows how to use google, and so everyone is scared to write anything slightly negative about a musician or their work, because generally those musicians get offended and hold grudges for years and people don't want to deal with that. anyway, I think that's the main issue.

[jon abbey]

Lois shut down the discussion board on Jazzcorner (which still survives as a portal). It didn't die a natural death, it was terminated.

it's a shame the archives aren't anywhere except maybe the Wayback Machine, but JC always needed genuine moderation desperately and never got any.

[negative potential]

The passionate discussions died some years before that.

That's what I mean; it was already moribund before its official end.

[negative potential]

it's a shame the archives aren't anywhere except maybe the Wayback Machine

Yeah Wayback Machine doesn't work, I've tried.

That's a shame, because I think that was the only Jazz forum that really had long, thoughtful discussions. Other Jazz boards seemed way more limited to people getting hyped about Blue Note reissues or other trivia.

I remember a really long debate you and Walter Horn had about whether Ben Ratliff was justified in saying Mark Turner sounds like Warne Marsh; I'd love to be able to re-read that.

[Mo Noyz]

The old Jazzcorner forum died before Facebook became a dominant medium, and I think that was also primarily musical inertia. All the Crouch/Marsalis jazz wars stuff had been done to death in the 90s and the turn of the millennium. The larger world has moved on from that, Jazz is largely a repertory music today, and there aren't any real "controversies" to hash out anymore.

Lois shut down the discussion board on Jazzcorner (which still survives as a portal). It didn't die a natural death, it was terminated. The passionate discussions died some years before that.

As Alex already stated above, JC did indeed die a natural death because Lois saw no need to keep pouring money into the forums that had already withered on the vine. Even the board I started for the JC refugees, and eventually handed off to Ron Thorne, went belly up in record time. Though I think he still has it up and running, with no traffic to speak of.

The online bulletin board is simply a relic from the days when people were more interested in long form discussions about subjects they were interested in. While once the vanguard of social media, the new “quick hit” version of social media has become the choice of the majority because it is more streamlined and customizable. It simply fits the needs of most in this day and age of limited free time. It’s concise and comfortable.

I do miss the knockdown drag out intellectual political battles between walto and Bill Ashline, though. At the time they were way above my neophyte, loudmouthed, clueless right wing political “knowledge”. But I somehow felt smarter for reading them. Even though I had no idea what either were saying, I loved the way they said it!

And if nothing else, I can still say I’m the undisputed world champion of being banned from JC. Seven times, baby!

[jon abbey]

I think the 'block' function is a key part of FB, which isn't really fully echoed in any other platform I know about. it's simultaneously really healthy and a bit unhealthy, you save a lot of time and agita by not endlessly arguing with the same people you disagree with/dislike, but it's probably not totally healthy never seeing their perspective again.

as an example here, if I had first encountered Scott (Mo Noyz for those reading who don't know) on FB and he had acted like he did back at JC, there's a good chance I would have blocked him and forgotten about him, and that would have been my loss.

[Steve Minkin]

I think the 'block' function is a key part of FB, which isn't really fully echoed in any other platform I know about

ICC (Internet Chess Club) has this feature. I occasionally use it against disagreeable trash-talkers (distracts from the game, initiates a whole other game I'm not into).

Can't tell you how much I love that site! I usually start playing no earlier than this, so most of the USA is asleep. But I almost always find games quickly, with Indians, Israelis, Egyptians, Nigerians, Finns . . .

Just blew a won game against a guy whose tag was 'Oakland.' Not from Oaktown, actually a Raider fan from New Jersey.